Pathfinder 1E Does pathfinder strike anyone as too gamey?

[Rob1207]

I haven't posted in a long time, my group went away from D&D when 4e came out. Our
reason was it felt like the game was WAY too different. My best
friend said he would never play in a game with fighter daily's again
because they didn't make since.
So when I was invited to a pathfinder game I was very happy to get back into some
D&D. Except it doesn't seem to me to be any better then 4e. No there isn't a fighter daily, but the Alchemist drove me nuts.
1^st fight, my monk got totally wrecked. I asked the alchemist for one of
his cure lights, and was told I couldn't drink it...
The rules say (I am not kidding) that if he hands me a cure light it looses all magic
and becomes colored water, but it gets better if I hand it back, it
magically changes back to a cure light.

How are potions that only work for one person better or more realistic then fighter
daily's???

 

[Kramodlog]

His potions are attuned only to his aura and/or genetic material (via a drop of blood)?

Later he can take abilities that will let him spread the potions around.

 

[knottyprof]

Fighter daily's?
I agree the alchemist's discoveries that do not transfer to others definitely feels like a game mechanic thing then a flavor thing. Basically the alchemist is a self buffer. That is one thing I have noticed about the gaming industry (at least from the D&D range) since the beginning. When the game started the focus was on the party as a whole (group initiative, etc.) while now it seems the mechanic is primarily focused on the individual character. Personally I think it is the sign of the times as new generations have taken over the game which is then geared for their views and focuses.

 

[Rob1207]

what does self buffer and Alchemist have in common? I see the word Alchemist and just assume any potions or elixers he makes would work for anyone... I think it is crazy to make what is really a self buffing sorcerer and call it an alchemist

 

[DaveMage]

I think there are certainly things in Pathfinder that tread in that "gamey" arena. I also think the Mythic rules fall into this category.

I tend to avoid those aspects of the game when I play, but I'm sure there are those who love them.

That's the beauty of the system in a way as it accounts for many different playstyles.

 

[gamerprinter]

what does self buffer and Alchemist have in common? I see the word Alchemist and just assume any potions or elixers he makes would work for anyone... I think it is crazy to make what is really a self buffing sorcerer and call it an alchemist

And the alchemist can certainly brew potions and create alchemical substances used by other players, however, in order for balance many of the other abilities cannot be transferred to those other than the alchemist - this is only for the purpose of balance. Since it's so easy and fast to create a bomb, if it wasn't limited to insta-use by only the alchemist, then the he could essentially build a stock pile of bombs to use at will. Same with mutation powers, the alchemist can activate it's abilities to affect himself only. He would be too powerful compared to other buffers if he could provide bombs and mutations to other persons than himself. Still as an alchemist, he's not forced to only buff himself, he can still create smoke sticks and other alchemical substances for other party members to use.

 

[gamerprinter]

I think there are certainly things in Pathfinder that tread in that "gamey" arena. I also think the Mythic rules fall into this category.

I tend to avoid those aspects of the game when I play, but I'm sure there are those who love them.

That's the beauty of the system in a way as it accounts for many different playstyles.

Yeah, I won't use Mythic rules, just as I don't allow words of power, and other subsystems of PF. Options are what they are. If you want them in your game, it's there for your use. However, just because it's there doesn't mean you have to use it. I'm glad PF caters to different playstyles and mechanic parts to serve those playstyles. No where does it say that all subsystems need to be applied in your game. Consider that for many of them PFS doesn't allow them, so there things that obviously don't fit in every game, not even for Paizo.

 

[Cadence]

This seems really related to a conversation over in the thread about Kender and whether there is/should be a meaningful distinction between things in the core and things in supplements.

Alchemist silly? Sure, I'll buy that.

That it could be named better? Sure, I'll buy that too. (Selfchemist?)

That an optional class that "each GM must make an personal decision about" being gamey tarnishes the entire system? That seems a few steps too far. And, unlike a fighter cinematically only being able to try and hit someone really hard once a day or once a battle, they do make an attempt at having an in-story reason for the alchemist limitation (the aura and all).

 

[Kinak]

Setting aside the fact that magic works however the author wants it to work and that there are real world alchemical traditions that focus on perfection of the self, drugs working differently for different people isn't really a novel concept.

Even if you pretend that it isn't magic, which it explicitly is in the rules, you shouldn't take other people's medicine. Unless it's unrealistic that the drugs I take every morning would give a lot of people nosebleeds and others nervous breakdowns.

I which case, I guess I should complain about the alchemists at CVS.

Cheers!
Kinak

 

[JeffB]

A fantasy roleplaying game that is unrealistic and gamey?

OMG!!!