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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gamerprinter" data-source="post: 6193389" data-attributes="member: 50895">And there's nothing wrong with your point of view (I never said there was), however, there's also nothing wrong with my point of view. Our points of view are opposite, but that's perfectly OK. I think the PF fighter is perfectly fine, and at least in our games competitive with the spellcaster to about 14th level - which is about where we max our PCs levels anyway. We have one player that always plays a fighter, and she never feels diminished by the other players, spellcasters included. One player plays a sorcerer, but most everybody else plays half-casters. So true martial and true caster PCs are rare in our group, most play rangers, paladins, inquisitors, bards. And everybody feels balanced to everyone else. Nobody in our group feels the need to add caster power to make our martials better. The Core and Base classes of PF are fine as they are. I only care to create new classes, alternate classes and archetypes. I don't want martial adepts.</blockquote>