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Does pathfinder strike anyone as too gamey?
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<blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 6193876" data-attributes="member: 3400"><p>I think the 2nd and 3rd points are, generally, a wash. The fighter in 3e often gets more attacks (sometimes quite a few more) depending on the feats he takes with high chances of hitting with just as many attacks as the 2e fighter plus the chance to hit with even more. He also has a high number of bonuses at his disposal that are easier to get in 3e than in 2e so that I think the relative effect of the bonuses in 2e is reasonably well covered in 3e. </p><p></p><p>The non-weapon proficiency system in 2e makes for an interesting comparison since, on one hand, it's an optional system in 2e that not everyone uses compared to a standard system in 3e. The 3e system, particularly as modified in PF, gives the fighter a lot of flexibility even if his starting values tend to be lower.</p><p></p><p>As far as comparative utilization of ability scores, I'm not sure that's easily quantifiable or comparable. The fighter in 3e has the power to change his scores in ways that a 2e character didn't if he's coming up short somewhere.</p><p></p><p>The saving throw issue is really the one issue that I think everyone can agree on. However, it too has some subtleties. For example, the fighter's saves up to level 8 are mediocre and that's where, apparently, most of the 1e/2e playing took place so I don't know that most players actually experienced the fighter's resiliency in full flower in the teen levels before the clerics and wizards catch back up. Also, it's pretty easy for a 3e fighter to improve his own saves with feats and cloaks of resistance. With this factor, I think the main culprits are the spellcaster's ability to pump up his casting stat to raise his DCs and the existence of weak saves that end up being a <strong>lot</strong> weaker compared to that maxed out casting stat than I think was initially intended.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="billd91, post: 6193876, member: 3400"] I think the 2nd and 3rd points are, generally, a wash. The fighter in 3e often gets more attacks (sometimes quite a few more) depending on the feats he takes with high chances of hitting with just as many attacks as the 2e fighter plus the chance to hit with even more. He also has a high number of bonuses at his disposal that are easier to get in 3e than in 2e so that I think the relative effect of the bonuses in 2e is reasonably well covered in 3e. The non-weapon proficiency system in 2e makes for an interesting comparison since, on one hand, it's an optional system in 2e that not everyone uses compared to a standard system in 3e. The 3e system, particularly as modified in PF, gives the fighter a lot of flexibility even if his starting values tend to be lower. As far as comparative utilization of ability scores, I'm not sure that's easily quantifiable or comparable. The fighter in 3e has the power to change his scores in ways that a 2e character didn't if he's coming up short somewhere. The saving throw issue is really the one issue that I think everyone can agree on. However, it too has some subtleties. For example, the fighter's saves up to level 8 are mediocre and that's where, apparently, most of the 1e/2e playing took place so I don't know that most players actually experienced the fighter's resiliency in full flower in the teen levels before the clerics and wizards catch back up. Also, it's pretty easy for a 3e fighter to improve his own saves with feats and cloaks of resistance. With this factor, I think the main culprits are the spellcaster's ability to pump up his casting stat to raise his DCs and the existence of weak saves that end up being a [b]lot[/b] weaker compared to that maxed out casting stat than I think was initially intended. [/QUOTE]
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