does ring of mind shielding protect from alignment-based spells?

[Joshua Randall]

Does a ring of mind shielding protect you from alignment based spells?

For example, would the ring render you immune to the effects of unholy blight, etc.
Would the ring allow you to bypass a forbiddance or glyph of warding set against a particular alignment?

ring of mind shielding[sblock]Mind Shielding: This ring is usually of fine workmanship and wrought from heavy gold. The wearer is continually immune to detect thoughts, discern lies, and any attempt to magically discern her alignment.

Faint aburation; CL 3rd; Forge Ring, nondetection; Price 8,000 gp.[/sblock]
unholy blight (emphasis added)[sblock]Unholy Blight
Evocation [Evil]
Level: Evil 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration: Instantaneous (1d4 rounds); see text
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

You call up unholy power to smite your enemies. The power takes the form of a cold, cloying miasma of greasy darkness.

Only good and neutral (not evil) creatures are harmed by the spell.

The spell deals 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d8) to a good creature (or 1d6 per caster level, maximum 10d6, to a good outsider) and causes it to be sickened for 1d4 rounds. A successful Will save reduces damage to half and negates the sickened effect. The effects cannot be negated by remove disease or heal, but remove curse is effective.

The spell deals only half damage to creatures who are neither evil nor good, and they are not sickened. Such a creature can reduce the damage in half again (down to one-quarter) with a successful Will save.[/sblock]
forbiddance (emphasis added)[sblock]Forbiddance
Abjuration
Level: Clr 6
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 6 rounds
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 60-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes

Forbiddance seals an area against all planar travel into or within it. This includes all teleportation spells (such as dimension door and teleport), plane shifting, astral travel, ethereal travel, and all summoning spells. Such effects simply fail automatically.

In addition, it damages entering creatures whose alignments are different from yours. The effect on those attempting to enter the warded area is based on their alignment relative to yours (see below). A creature inside the area when the spell is cast takes no damage unless it exits the area and attempts to reenter, at which time it is affected as normal.

Alignments identical: No effect. The creature may enter the area freely (although not by planar travel).

Alignments different with respect to either law/chaos or good/evil: The creature takes 6d6 points of damage. A successful Will save halves the damage, and spell resistance applies.

Alignments different with respect to both law/chaos and good/evil: The creature takes 12d6 points of damage. A successful Will save halves the damage, and spell resistance applies.

At your option, the abjuration can include a password, in which case creatures of alignments different from yours can avoid the damage by speaking the password as they enter the area. You must select this option (and the password) at the time of casting.

Dispel magic does not dispel a forbiddance effect unless the dispeller’s level is at least as high as your caster level.

You can’t have multiple overlapping forbiddance effects. In such a case, the more recent effect stops at the boundary of the older effect.

Material Component: A sprinkling of holy water and rare incenses worth at least 1,500 gp, plus 1,500 gp per 60-foot cube. If a password is desired, this requires the burning of additional rare incenses worth at least 1,000 gp, plus 1,000 gp per 60-foot cube.[/sblock]
glyph of warding (emphasis added)[sblock]Glyph of Warding
Abjuration
Level: Clr 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Touch
Target or Area: Object touched or up to 5 sq. ft./level
Duration: Permanent until discharged (D)
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: No (object) and Yes; see text

This powerful inscription harms those who enter, pass, or open the warded area or object. A glyph of warding can guard a bridge or passage, ward a portal, trap a chest or box, and so on.

You set the conditions of the ward. Typically, any creature entering the warded area or opening the warded object without speaking a password (which you set when casting the spell) is subject to the magic it stores. Alternatively or in addition to a password trigger, glyphs can be set according to physical characteristics (such as height or weight) or creature type, subtype, or kind. Glyphs can also be set with respect to good, evil, law, or chaos, or to pass those of your religion. They cannot be set according to class, Hit Dice, or level. Glyphs respond to invisible creatures normally but are not triggered by those who travel past them ethereally. Multiple glyphs cannot be cast on the same area. However, if a cabinet has three drawers, each can be separately warded.

When casting the spell, you weave a tracery of faintly glowing lines around the warding sigil. A glyph can be placed to conform to any shape up to the limitations of your total square footage. When the spell is completed, the glyph and tracery become nearly invisible.

Glyphs cannot be affected or bypassed by such means as physical or magical probing, though they can be dispelled. Mislead, polymorph, and nondetection (and similar magical effects) can fool a glyph, though nonmagical disguises and the like can’t. Read magic allows you to identify a glyph of warding with a DC 13 Spellcraft check. Identifying the glyph does not discharge it and allows you to know the basic nature of the glyph (version, type of damage caused, what spell is stored).

Note: Magic traps such as glyph of warding are hard to detect and disable. A rogue (only) can use the Search skill to find the glyph and Disable Device to thwart it. The DC in each case is 25 + spell level, or 28 for glyph of warding.

Depending on the version selected, a glyph either blasts the intruder or activates a spell.

Blast Glyph: A blast glyph deals 1d8 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d8) to the intruder and to all within 5 feet of him or her. This damage is acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic (caster’s choice, made at time of casting). Each creature affected can attempt a Reflex save to take half damage. Spell resistance applies against this effect.

Spell Glyph: You can store any harmful spell of 3rd level or lower that you know. All level-dependent features of the spell are based on your caster level at the time of casting the glyph. If the spell has a target, it targets the intruder. If the spell has an area or an amorphous effect the area or effect is centered on the intruder. If the spell summons creatures, they appear as close as possible to the intruder and attack. Saving throws and spell resistance operate as normal, except that the DC is based on the level of the spell stored in the glyph.

Material Component: You trace the glyph with incense, which must first be sprinkled with powdered diamond worth at least 200 gp.[/sblock]

 

[Joker]

My first reaction was: Of course not. That doesn't make any sense. But then I thought about the notion that for the spell to have any effect on you, it must in some way determine your alignment.

Personally, I would say it wouldn't work because that would be a ridiculously powerful effect for such a cheap item.

Plus, I'm scared (truly terrified) that it alludes to the will Mind Blank stop a fireball from affecting you because you gain info with the FB.

Now where's that scared s**tless smiley?

 

[Hypersmurf]

The Glyph, I think, can be fooled - the ring is a 'similar magical effect'.

The others, though, aren't attempts to discern alignment.

You're wearing the Ring. The Paladin attempts to Detect Evil, and comes up blank. He Smites Evil on you, and you take a stack of extra damage. "Huh," he says. "I wasn't really expecting that to work."

Smite Evil doesn't attempt to determine whether or not you're evil; it simply is an effect that works on evil creatures, and not on non-evil creatures. Much like a magnet doesn't attempt to determine whether a metal object is ferrous or not; you can paint your knife up like copper so well that nobody can tell the difference, but it'll still stick to the magnet.

Unholy Blight, to me, reads like an evil magnet, not an evil detector. Glyph of Warding reads like an evil detector - it's not a blast of anti-evil energy, but rather it's a blast of anti-everyone energy that is only triggered when it determines someone to be evil.

-Hyp.

 

[pallandrome]

I'd say those spells DO affect the character. See, the spells "look" at the character and ask if the character is (enter alignment here). The ring keeps the spell from detecting the alignment, so the spell thinks "Oh well, looks like they ain't evil. -KABLOOIE-".

see what I mean?

 

[Mort]

The Glyph, I think, can be fooled - the ring is a 'similar magical effect'.

I think it also depends what the glyph was set to go off on. If the criteria is "not evil = explode" then the ring will actually be harmful, because anyone wearing it, even if evil, registers as "?" and "?" is "not evil" so the glyph explodes. If it is set specifically (Explode if = "good") than anyone wearing the ring even if good can walk past it.

The others, though, aren't attempts to discern alignment.

You're wearing the Ring. The Paladin attempts to Detect Evil, and comes up blank. He Smites Evil on you, and you take a stack of extra damage. "Huh," he says. "I wasn't really expecting that to work."

Smite Evil doesn't attempt to determine whether or not you're evil; it simply is an effect that works on evil creatures, and not on non-evil creatures. Much like a magnet doesn't attempt to determine whether a metal object is ferrous or not; you can paint your knife up like copper so well that nobody can tell the difference, but it'll still stick to the magnet.

Unholy Blight, to me, reads like an evil magnet, not an evil detector. Glyph of Warding reads like an evil detector - it's not a blast of anti-evil energy, but rather it's a blast of anti-everyone energy that is only triggered when it determines someone to be evil.

-Hyp.

Unholy blight damages anyone who is not evil - so the ring wouldn't help anyway (you can't register as evil if wearing the ring). I think I would rule that the spell does have a detection element - that way Mr. Smartypants evil guy who has the ring on and gets caught in a Blasphemy effect gets a nice surprise

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think it also depends what the glyph was set to go off on.

Right. The Glyph can be fooled by the ring. That could be good or bad for the wearer.

I think I would rule that the spell does have a detection element...

For consistency, you'd presumably make the wearer immune to Smite Evil, take no extra damage from Holy weapons, and be able to handle Holy weapons without taking a negative level?

-Hyp.

 

[Mort]

Right. The Glyph can be fooled by the ring. That could be good or bad for the wearer.



For consistency, you'd presumably make the wearer immune to Smite Evil, take no extra damage from Holy weapons, and be able to handle Holy weapons without taking a negative level?

-Hyp.

That is the logical conclusion, yes. I'd actually thought of that, but If your going to make alignment mind based, you have to follow through. Whether that makes the ring (or similar items) too powerful is a separate question.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'd actually thought of that, but If your going to make alignment mind based, you have to follow through.

Which is why I consider 'damages evil creatures' to be an entirely separate issue to 'detects evil creatures' If I zap you with an Anti-Evil Ray spell, you'll take damage... even if your ring makes my Detect Evil spell say "No problem here, boss!"

-Hyp.

 

[Joshua Randall]

The Glyph, I think, can be fooled - the ring is a 'similar magical effect'.

The others, though, aren't attempts to discern alignment.

This is the position I mostly agree with.

In D&D, alignment is not just a state-of-mind, it's a force that exists independently, like whether or not something is magic. You can hide the +1 sword's aura with nondetection or similar, but the sword is magic regardless.

Similarly, if you are a demon, you can hide your alignment with the ring of mind shielding, but you are chaotic evil regardless.

 

[smootrk]

This is the position I mostly agree with.

In D&D, alignment is not just a state-of-mind, it's a force that exists independently, like whether or not something is magic. You can hide the +1 sword's aura with nondetection or similar, but the sword is magic regardless.

Similarly, if you are a demon, you can hide your alignment with the ring of mind shielding, but you are chaotic evil regardless.

Correct. Evil (or good, or lawful...etc) is a state of being - a concrete concept.
The other is a method of shielding the knowledge of your state of being from another. Two very separate things. Even if you don't know someone is evil, things that affect evil folks will still work (besides granting knowledge of the state of evil).

If I was diabetic, no one knows that I am diabetic. If there was a test, then they could determine if I was diabetic (detect spell). I might have a way to fool the test like an ingested substance or another way to thwart the test (mind shield). Regardless, I would still be diabetic, and subject to the effects of the disease, or subject to substances that affect those with diabetes.

I am sure others can make similar analogies.