Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 9239579" data-attributes="member: 22779">Again, I was trying to illustrate with an example, NOT actually trying to turn the discussion into a debate over the specific example.The question was asked for examples of when D&amp;D was transparent and also other systems which had transparancy as well.&nbsp; Whether you specifically LIKE these mechanics or not is irrelevant.&nbsp; The point is, the mechanics were very, very transparent.&nbsp; And that transparency allows DM's and players to understand more easily the underlying assumptions of the game, as well as predict what changing these assumptions will result in.By reducing transparency, it's pretty much a crap shoot as to what effects the magic items in D&amp;D will have.&nbsp; After all, in 3e, (I'm going to completely ignore 4e here because I'm rather tired of having to dredge up 15 year old edition warring crap yet again, so, I will no respond to any reference to 4e and, if I get the urge, I'm very likely to go back, edit my past posts to remove any reference to 4e since that seems to have simply clouded the issue) I KNOW pretty clearly what will happen if I adjust the party wealth up or down.When I ran the World's Largest Dungeon in 3e, there was no way to purchase or craft magic items.&nbsp; Everything was 100% random - whatever they found in the WLD, that's the items they had.&nbsp; And, because I knew what they should have (at least in a ballpark way) at a given level, I could adjust encounters to suit the power of the party.In 5e, I cannot predict that.&nbsp; If I give a group of 7th level PC's a Rare magic item each, what impact will that have on party power?&nbsp; Well, it ranges from nothing (5 potions of Superior Healing would have zero impact on this group) to massively overpowering the group - the fighter gets a Belt of Hill Giant Strength, the wizard gets a wand of Fireballs, the cleric gets a Staff of Healing, a Cloak of Displacement for the Rogue and a Flame Tongue sword for the Paladin.&nbsp; Those two parties are now MILES apart in power level despite having what the game tells me are exactly the same value magic items.&nbsp; And what have we gained by making the assumptions opaque?&nbsp; Some sort of touchy feely feeling of magic items being &quot;wondrous&quot;?&nbsp; A game should NEVER be opaque.&nbsp; That's the poorest form of game design.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 9239579, member: 22779"] Again, I was trying to illustrate with an example, NOT actually trying to turn the discussion into a debate over the specific example. The question was asked for examples of when D&D was transparent and also other systems which had transparancy as well. Whether you specifically LIKE these mechanics or not is irrelevant. The point is, the mechanics were very, very transparent. And that transparency allows DM's and players to understand more easily the underlying assumptions of the game, as well as predict what changing these assumptions will result in. By reducing transparency, it's pretty much a crap shoot as to what effects the magic items in D&D will have. After all, in 3e, (I'm going to completely ignore 4e here because I'm rather tired of having to dredge up 15 year old edition warring crap yet again, so, I will no respond to any reference to 4e and, if I get the urge, I'm very likely to go back, edit my past posts to remove any reference to 4e since that seems to have simply clouded the issue) I KNOW pretty clearly what will happen if I adjust the party wealth up or down. When I ran the World's Largest Dungeon in 3e, there was no way to purchase or craft magic items. Everything was 100% random - whatever they found in the WLD, that's the items they had. And, because I knew what they should have (at least in a ballpark way) at a given level, I could adjust encounters to suit the power of the party. In 5e, I cannot predict that. If I give a group of 7th level PC's a Rare magic item each, what impact will that have on party power? Well, it ranges from nothing (5 potions of Superior Healing would have zero impact on this group) to massively overpowering the group - the fighter gets a Belt of Hill Giant Strength, the wizard gets a wand of Fireballs, the cleric gets a Staff of Healing, a Cloak of Displacement for the Rogue and a Flame Tongue sword for the Paladin. Those two parties are now MILES apart in power level despite having what the game tells me are exactly the same value magic items. And what have we gained by making the assumptions opaque? Some sort of touchy feely feeling of magic items being "wondrous"? A game should NEVER be opaque. That's the poorest form of game design. [/QUOTE]

Verification