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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Does the 3rd Tier of Play at Level 11 Make Sense?
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<blockquote data-quote="squibbles" data-source="post: 8942673" data-attributes="member: 6937590"><p>The separation of 5e PC's into tiers of play is one of the many things I find elegant about the 5e system. The designers observed that access to certain spell levels--3rd, 6th, 9th--dramatically expand the power and capabilities of PCs, so they gave PCs without full spell progression power spikes at the character levels--5th, 11th, 17th--that those spell levels are gained.</p><p></p><p>For the second tier it works great; fly, fireball, spirit guardians, and conjure animals are huge, and they pair excellently with all the fight-y classes getting extra attack. For the fourth tier it works somewhat less well--barbarians' extra brutal critical die and 6th use/rest of rage doesn't compare favorably with, say, the wish spell--but 17th level is still the obvious place for the last tier to start.</p><p></p><p>The third tier at 11th level is weird, though. The PHB states that:</p><p></p><p>Well, most fight-y types do get a solid power spike at 11th level that lets them attack more or harder (with some ranger and monk subclasses being a bit dubious).</p><p></p><p>...but 6th level spells aren't that big a deal. Blasts like chain lightning, circle of death, and disintegrate aren't substantially ahead of their 5th level counterparts in the way that fireball and meteor swarm are above their 2nd and 8th level ones. And the unique capabilities gains--contingency, heroes feast, true seeing--aren't as drastic as fly and conjure animals or wish and true polymorph. And some of the strong 5th level spells, like wall of force and animate objects, are probably better than most of the spells at 6th level. But, weirdly, several class features, such as the sorcerer's font of magic or the warlock's pact slots, cut off at 5th level spells, suggesting that 6th level spells are supposed to be a major step up.</p><p></p><p>So, what do you think? Is the power spike at the third tier of play a bit off? If it is a bit off, does that matter and, also, why is it designed like this? Finally, if it is off and that does matter, how do you think it could be improved in the upcoming edition?</p><p></p><p></p><p>(fwiw, my bad if this is the wrong forum for this question. The One D&D & OGL forum feels as though it is somewhat less suited for discussing mechanics of late, and this is half a question about whether the 5e tiers work as intended.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="squibbles, post: 8942673, member: 6937590"] The separation of 5e PC's into tiers of play is one of the many things I find elegant about the 5e system. The designers observed that access to certain spell levels--3rd, 6th, 9th--dramatically expand the power and capabilities of PCs, so they gave PCs without full spell progression power spikes at the character levels--5th, 11th, 17th--that those spell levels are gained. For the second tier it works great; fly, fireball, spirit guardians, and conjure animals are huge, and they pair excellently with all the fight-y classes getting extra attack. For the fourth tier it works somewhat less well--barbarians' extra brutal critical die and 6th use/rest of rage doesn't compare favorably with, say, the wish spell--but 17th level is still the obvious place for the last tier to start. The third tier at 11th level is weird, though. The PHB states that: Well, most fight-y types do get a solid power spike at 11th level that lets them attack more or harder (with some ranger and monk subclasses being a bit dubious). ...but 6th level spells aren't that big a deal. Blasts like chain lightning, circle of death, and disintegrate aren't substantially ahead of their 5th level counterparts in the way that fireball and meteor swarm are above their 2nd and 8th level ones. And the unique capabilities gains--contingency, heroes feast, true seeing--aren't as drastic as fly and conjure animals or wish and true polymorph. And some of the strong 5th level spells, like wall of force and animate objects, are probably better than most of the spells at 6th level. But, weirdly, several class features, such as the sorcerer's font of magic or the warlock's pact slots, cut off at 5th level spells, suggesting that 6th level spells are supposed to be a major step up. So, what do you think? Is the power spike at the third tier of play a bit off? If it is a bit off, does that matter and, also, why is it designed like this? Finally, if it is off and that does matter, how do you think it could be improved in the upcoming edition? (fwiw, my bad if this is the wrong forum for this question. The One D&D & OGL forum feels as though it is somewhat less suited for discussing mechanics of late, and this is half a question about whether the 5e tiers work as intended.) [/QUOTE]
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