Doing more with damage types

I'm watching a play-through of the new Final Fantasy VII, and almost every monster has some vulnerability to a damage type, or some resistance. Tons of video games do it, of course.

I kind of wish in 6th edition would try something along those lines for its monster design, and give players more ways to deal a variety of damage types. It'd be a small thing, but would reward good game play.

Now, in FF7 it's mostly just 'extra damage' or 'less damage,' but I think we can spruce things up a bit so the effects are more flavorful and narrative. Extra damage isn't interesting. That's true about critical hits too.

Damage Type Brainstorm
We have three weapon damage types - bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing.

We have seven energy damage types - acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, necrotic, poison, psychic.

Changes. I think 'radiant' should just be force, and thunder should just be bludgeoning. Some attacks might have a rider of 'radiant' or 'wind,' but those aren't damage types.

Naturally, if we're changing how damage works, we'd have to adjust how much damage things do, and the HP creatures have, and probably other stuff.

Weapon Damages. I'm imagining having three types of critical hits. Instead of extra HP damage, a crit might cause bleed, might injure a random body part, or might daze. When you hit with a weapon, you choose one effect..


  • Bludgeoning weapons are good at dazing (which makes it hard for you to do special attacks).
  • Piercing weapons create a bleed effect that's harder to end.
  • Slashing weapons give you better control over which body part you wound.

Energy Damages. I'm thinking different energy types would require a save to avoid a rider effect. If you're vulnerable, maybe you auto-fail.

Acid does ongoing damage. Dex save to avoid.

Cold traps things in ice, slowing (or potentially immobilizing). Str save to break out.

Fire does ongoing damage. Dex save to avoid. (I'm not sure how to mechanically differentiate it from fire without requiring fiddly rules.)

Force can hurt insubstantial creatures.

Lightning can slow or immobilize. Con save to break out.

Necrotic can inflict wounds. Con save to avoid.

Poison does ongoing damage. Con save to avoid.

Psychic can daze. Wis save to avoid.

Radiant could blind (Dex save to look away? or Con save to have really strong eyeballs?) probably would do stuff like make shadow monsters go from insubstantial to substantial so the rest of the team can harm them.

Wind would let you shove the target, but with flying creatures it would be really good at knocking them from the sky.

Monster Design Bonus Section
D&D 5e benefits I think from the ease and speed of play, though it doesn't have a ton of tactical depth. I wonder if it'd be possible if we could just design monsters to reward changing tactics.

I recall toward the tail end of 3e there was a monster manual entry for a weird nautilus looking thing that required you to break through its shell (which was magic resistant), to release its inner spirit (which was physical resistant). It was a small thing, but I liked it.

More recently, Monster Hunter and Horizon Zero Dawn have built big monsters where you don't want to just shoot center body mass and grind down HP. You want to target specific body parts to remove its offensive or defensive abilities.

Now of course, that only matters if characters have access to a variety of attack types, and there is some trade-off between different tactics. If you can always do a called shot, well, you'll always do it. But if it takes some small amount of set-up, or there's an opportunity cost, then you're doing some on-the-fly assessment, and feel good if you pick the right tactic.

I prefer that level of cognitive load in my games, rather than the 3.5 style of "have I added all the bonuses properly, and am I rolling enough dice?"

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For example, imagine a classic fight against a red dragon. It's flying around, breathing fire, occasionally picking up a boulder and dropping it on you. A spellcaster could use cold spells to suppress its fire breath, and to slow it down so it can't stay in the air. A wind spell might just knock it out of the sky. An archer could used some sort of called shot to try to injure its wing. Once it's on the ground, its tactics change. It pins you to the ground with a foreclaw, and if you're still stuck next turn it'll bite and rip a limb off. It'll maybe try to swallow you whole, or use a tail slam to send you flying into a dangerous part of the map. But it's big, so certain attacks will be less effective if there's cover or columns or whatever.
 

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jasper

Rotten DM
Only if each pc or class had a vulnerability also. Within six months the number crunches would be flooding the net with want is the best golf club bag of magical weapons/items you need to beat the average module. Also this would be a problem for new dms or non-tactical dms.
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
Within six months the number crunches would be flooding the net with want is the best golf club bag of magical weapons/items you need to beat the average module. Also this would be a problem for new dms or non-tactical dms.
Yeah, the rules-lawyers would love it. Also, instead of producing "good game play," I somehow just see characters walking around with eight swords on their backs (some of which manage to do bludgeoning damage). It would definitely tilt D&D away from 5e and back toward 3e.

For example, imagine a classic fight against a red dragon. It's flying around, breathing fire, occasionally picking up a boulder and dropping it on you. A spellcaster could use cold spells to suppress its fire breath, and to slow it down so it can't stay in the air. A wind spell might just knock it out of the sky. An archer could used some sort of called shot to try to injure its wing. Once it's on the ground, its tactics change. It pins you to the ground with a foreclaw, and if you're still stuck next turn it'll bite and rip a limb off. It'll maybe try to swallow you whole, or use a tail slam to send you flying into a dangerous part of the map. But it's big, so certain attacks will be less effective if there's cover or columns or whatever.
Lots of good ideas here, and I think that they can be met with 5e rules, or by a more narrative, rules-light game. No reason to add bulk, unless you like thick rulebooks. It's really on the GM:

So your suicidal group of PCs has decided that fighting a red dragon is the best way to deal with it. I'm not sure how the cold spells would slow it down (Iceman seems to fly faster with cold spells), but chilling the dragon's head/mouth seems like a good way to temper its fire-breath. Is the caster cheating by trying to make her cold spells more powerful? No, she's having fun. Then the dragon lands once it realizes fly-by breathing isn't working, and the puny knight who would actually make a good dragon-toothpick decides to attack with his sword. The dragon's character sheet doesn't need to say Piercing Immunity/+2 Silver, does it? Maybe the knight runs up to stab, and while he's up close, after his sword skips off the scales, he sees a broken piece of silver still lodged in an old wound. . .

Anyway, codify this stuff, and you get a bunch of cookie-cutter monsters and PCs who modify their wagons into rolling armories. However, add some GM advice on making encounters interesting, and the possibilities are endless.
 

Changes. I think 'radiant' should just be force, and thunder should just be bludgeoning. Some attacks might have a rider of 'radiant' or 'wind,' but those aren't damage types.
I've always thought "force" should just be a keyword or descriptor, and replaced by B/P/S. A magic missile could be piercing damage of magical force while Mordenkainen's sword is slashing damage of magical force.
 

Shiroiken

Legend
I will agree that there's a lot of overlap on damage types, and the only real difference for the most part is Resistance/Vulnerability. For the 7 other damage types, I think those should just have additional effects based on the source (usually magic). For weapon damage, I think it's too much to just add abilities to them, but if you did I'd suggest on a critical hit.

Bludgeoning: when a creature is hit by a bludgeoning critical hit, the DC for the creature to maintain concentration is equal to the damage taken (not halved), minimum 10. The creature must make a Concentration save DC: 10 cast any spell. It or another creature may take an action to make a Wis/Medicine check DC: 10 to end this effect. The creature may also make a Con Save DC: 10 at the end of their turn to end this effect.

Piercing: when a creature is hit by a piercing critical hit, the creature takes 1d4 piercing damage at the start of every round. It or another creature can take an action to make a Wis/Medicine check DC: 10 to end this effect to end this effect. The creature may also make a Con Save DC: 10 at the end of their turn to end this effect.

Slashing: when a creature is hit by a slashing critical hit, the creature has disadvantage on attacks and ability checks. It or another creature can take an action to make a Wis/Medicine check DC: 10 to end this effect to end this effect. The creature may also make a Con Save DC: 10 at the end of their turn to end this effect.
 

MarkB

Legend
If you're looking to get more out of the basic slashing/piercing/bludgeoning damage types, one option would be for different types of armour to be better or worse at dealing with different types of damage. That might make it actually useful to have a variety of armours in the game, rather than people rushing to get the best one in their proficiency bracket as soon as they can afford it.

I won't prove my utter ignorance of the practicalities of medieval armour by suggesting specific examples. :)
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
.Damage Type Brainstorm
We have three weapon damage types - bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing.

We have seven energy damage types - acid, cold, fire, force, lightning, necrotic, poison, psychic.


Weapon Damages.

  • Bludgeoning weapons are good at dazing (which makes it hard for you to do special attacks).
  • Piercing weapons create a bleed effect that's harder to end.
  • Slashing weapons give you better control over which body part you wound.

back When I was tinkering with magic I looked at universalizing the energy types and recast Weapon damage as ‘Kinetic Force” allowing physical weapons to do Force damage and Heroes to use “Force blades” (slash) “force blasts” (bludgeon) and “force spears” (piercing).

I also went with
Bludgeon = Knock back/Stun and Bruise (Dex -2) on Critical hit
Slash = Bleed effect and Wounds (reduce Con -2) on Critical hit
Pierce = Bleed effect and Wounds on a Critical. Can be used underwater

Thunder and Wind are forms of Force Bludgeon Damage which can affect ethereal creatures

if wounds are not treated with Healers Kit/First Aid* will become Festering wounds.
Festering Wounds can not be healed due to rot poison

Energy Damages. Dex save to avoid all Energy types
Acid - Burn (Con) damage each round until rinsed with water
Fire - Burn damage each round until rinsed with water
Lightning - Burn damage each round, knock back effect
Cold - Freeze effect (Dex damage).
Necrotic inflicts festering wounds. Con save to avoid.
Poison causes nausea. Con save to avoid.
Psychic can daze. Wis save to avoid.
Radiant can Blind

*Burn Damage can be overcome with a con save, burn wounds will fester if not treated (First Aid)
** I require wounds and bleeding to be tended first, magical healing only restores HP
 

One thing I have not figured out how to do is make psychic combat more interesting than just rolling some dice and hoping you don't fail your Wis save. There's no, like, tactics to mind control.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
One thing I have not figured out how to do is make psychic combat more interesting than just rolling some dice and hoping you don't fail your Wis save. There's no, like, tactics to mind control.
Would Fear effects (Shaken, Freightened, Panicked, Cowering) be sufficient? Or maybe a choice of Psyche effects between Fear Effects, Rage, or even Hideous laughter
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
One thing I have not figured out how to do is make psychic combat more interesting than just rolling some dice and hoping you don't fail your Wis save. There's no, like, tactics to mind control.
If the effects of mind control had a range, and some of those effects had conditions, and those conditions could effect either mental state or combat effectiveness, then I think you'd end up with fairly tactical decision making.
 

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