OSR Dolmenwood to be published as a standalone game

[kenada]

I wasn’t sure whether this should be a new thread or part of “Gavin Norman on the future of OSE” thread, but I think it’s worth its own thread.

The gist of it is the Dolmenwood books will be expanding to include the core rules. In addition, they will be tailored to Dolmenwood. Gavin writes that there were some ideas they had to shelve (such as distinguishing magic weapons by their origin) that they are going to bring back into the game. He also notes they decided to go this route because waiting to base Dolmenwood on the non-OGL Old-School Essentials risked delaying it considerably.

Gavin closes with some comments regarding the non-OGL OSE. They are still going to go forward with doing it, but there are still some things left to be decided. He mentions that they may use the CC-BY 5.1 SRD, but that will require reworking some things that aren’t present in the SRD. The non-OGL OSE could also include elements from Dolmenwood, but that’s something they’ll assess later. He says he won’t start working on it until after Dolmenwood is released, which would be 2024 (or later).

Dolmenwood Developments

It's been a very hectic last month, with leaked documents indicating Wizards of the Coast's intent to "deauthorize" the Open Game License, massive public outcry, and then their surprise release of the D&D 5e SRD under an ultra-permissive Creative Commons licence. The aftermath of these events is...

necroticgnome.com

 

[reelo]

I'm optimistic. I'm sure he won't veer too far away from OSE standards, but also the things that will get changed will probably be for the better.
There were a few things in the old "Wormskin" zines that got dropped, and whenever I asked about them on Discord, Gavin's answer was along the lines of "I had to make the decision to not stray too far away from standard BX procedures."
With that restricion now lifted, I hope that a few of the old Wormskin quirks make a comeback. Possibly the exploration procedures.
Also the origin-specific magic items are flavourful!

 

[Yora]

OSE is really just the old B/X source code.
Which has been hugely popular for the last 10 years because it lends itself so much to modding it (as the computer kids would say) to support all kinds of more specific settings and styles.
I think any OSE setting should come with it's own custom rules mods.

 

[reelo]

OSE is really just the old B/X source code.
Which has been hugely popular for the last 10 years because it lends itself so much to modding it (as the computer kids would say) to support all kinds of more specific settings and styles.
I think any OSE setting should come with it's own custom rules mods.

Exactly. I reckon Dolmenwood will end up being as close/far removed from BX as (Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of) Hyperborea is from AD&D 1E.
Meaning: quite close, but with any changes made to rules done so in order to better support the setting.
Excising the OGL is a nice catalyst for such stuff.

 

[deganawida]

On the one hand, I am very annoyed that this will be delayed more. I've been looking forward to final release.

On the other hand, I am a proponent of detailed campaign settings getting their own rules, either heavily customized from a base rules set, or being totally bespoke. So, I am also very happy that Gavin Norman is doing that for Dolmenwood.

 

[reelo]

On the one hand, I am very annoyed that this will be delayed more. I've been looking forward to final release.

On the other hand, I am a proponent of detailed campaign settings getting their own rules, either heavily customized from a base rules set, or being totally bespoke. So, I am also very happy that Gavin Norman is doing that for Dolmenwood.

Yeah, the delay sucks, of course.
But as you said, a setting as detailed as DW deserves no compromise when it comes to rules as applied to setting-specific stuff.

 

[overgeeked]

While the delay is disappointing, Gavin needs to do what’s best for him and his company and this setting. CYA on all the legalities is a pain but absolutely necessary.

 

[schneeland]

Thanks for sharing! (I think NG is less active on Twitter these days, so I read about it here first)

Contentwise it sounds like a net plus to me. While I very much look forward to the Dolmenwood books (probably one of my most expected RPG products this year), the delay is not too long and having the rules reinforce the themes of the setting a bit more, and maybe also a bit more streamlined here and there, definitely sounds good. Personally, I would even be ok with just broad compatibility with typical OSR stat blocks, but as already mentioned by @Yora and @reelo, I expect Dolmenwood will not stray too far from OSE / B/X standards.

 

[kenada]

Thanks for sharing! (I think NG is less active on Twitter these days, so I read about it here first)

Twitter is in such bad shape these days. I haven’t really checked it since they broke third-party clients in January. If you use an RSS reader, Necrotic Gnome syndicates their blog at https://necroticgnome.com/blogs/news.atom. (Though I saw the news on reddit first because I usually check my feeds in the evening.)

 

[darjr]

Oh! By the chatter I thought it was going to be an entirely different game.

This is fine, fantastic even. Thanks for posting this.

Not the delays and OGL debacle though. That sucks a lot.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Gavin Norman's Wormskin zines really are excellent, some of the most flavorful OSR works I've come across. The weird faery mood, part Vance and part Dunsany, is so good.

I'm optimistic. I'm sure he won't veer too far away from OSE standards, but also the things that will get changed will probably be for the better.
There were a few things in the old "Wormskin" zines that got dropped, and whenever I asked about them on Discord, Gavin's answer was along the lines of "I had to make the decision to not stray too far away from standard BX procedures."
With that restricion now lifted, I hope that a few of the old Wormskin quirks make a comeback. Possibly the exploration procedures.
Also the origin-specific magic items are flavourful!

 

[Malmuria]

This makes perfect sense to me, having run some dolmenwood recently. I also think it's good that you won't need a shelf full of books to run the game at the table, and that people who don't have OSE can get a complete game with this setting.

 

[Aldarc]

This makes perfect sense to me, having run some dolmenwood recently. I also think it's good that you won't need a shelf full of books to run the game at the table, and that people who don't have OSE can get a complete game with this setting.

I am glad that I waited. For me, I could do either the OSE Box Set or wait for Dolmenwood, but not both. I opted for the latter. To hear that Dolmenwood will be a self-contained game? That's incredible news for me!

 

[schneeland]

Gavin has now also clarified what rules changes we can probably expect to see: Dolmenwood Core Rules.

 

[Yora]

Perfectly reasonable things that should all have been done 42 years ago.

 

[schneeland]

Perfectly reasonable things that should all have been done 42 years ago.

Most of it indeed seems quite reasonable. The only thing where I am not entirely sure if I like it is the inclusion of the standard classes.

Edit:
On a second thought, I also hope he reverses his position on race-as-class and at least keeps it as an option, if not as the default.

 

[deganawida]

Most of it indeed seems quite reasonable. The only thing where I am not entirely sure if I like it is the inclusion of the standard classes.

I don’t. Take advantage of the change, and make custom versions of the big four. That’s already been done, to a large extent. If you just keep them in the setting, then don’t include them in the book. Instead, just have a sidebar about OSE classes in Dolmenwood.

Personally, I prefer for this setting the setting-specific classes (love Friar).

 

[reelo]

Most of it indeed seems quite reasonable. The only thing where I am not entirely sure if I like it is the inclusion of the standard classes.

The "classic 4" will, afaik, get a few tweaks. They've always been present in the setting, along with the setting-specific friar, hunter, minstrel, and knight.
But since we now get race/class split, I wonder if the nonhumans (elf, grimalkin, goatfolk, moss-dwarf, and woodgrue) will have any class-restrictions. I sure hope so. I think race-as-class should have stayed intact, tbh.
What I'm also curious about is the new "sorcerer" class. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

The other changes (AAC etc) are perfectly sensible.

 

[Kai Lord]

"Adventuring Skills​

There are a bunch of X-in-6 based skills common to all character classes hidden away in B/X (e.g. listening at doors, searching for traps, the surprise roll, etc). Dolmenwood will present these as a skill system, rather than as ad hoc rolls. There will be 4 skills: Listen, Search, Stealth, Survival. The underlying mechanic for these checks remains the same (i.e. X-in-6 chance of success, with certain races / classes getting an improved chance of success).

Reason: Explaining this "hidden skills system" explicitly makes it easier to understand and apply."

This is a fascinating take on 1d6 checks from B/X (and to whatever extent AD&D.) Is there a comprised reference list of every check that requires a d6 roll already posted somewhere?

 

[reelo]

After having read the Patreon-preview (work-in-progress) of the split Kindred and Classes, I'm on board. Everything makes sense, nothing is too crazy as there's sensible restrictions in place for certain combinations. Humans and Breggle (goatfolk) are pretty much interchangeable as they should be. Fey (elves, grimalkin, woodgrue) kindred are qualified as "godless," and can't be clerics, friars, or knights, for example. Mosslings, who are mortal and not fey, have little to no aptitude for magic and are thus fighters, hunters, mainly.

I'm confident Gavin will be able to draw in a lot of new people who, admittedly, aren't used to race-as-class, while still holding in to old-school sensibilities.