Dominate Person

[Hypersmurf]

Well, prot evil doesn't just say that it blocks the spell, but _also_ that it suppresses the effect.

Hmm. I must admit, I've read that as "suppresses the exercise-mental-control effect" - I'd always assumed that whether or not you could exercise mental control, you could still receive sensory input from a PfE'd Dominated Person, for example.

-Hyp.

 

[Nail]

Isn't the "mental control" in this case the order given? (Rather than "mental control" = "other orders that could be given in the future".)

 

[Hypersmurf]

Isn't the "mental control" in this case the order given? (Rather than "mental control" = "other orders that could be given in the future".)

I think the exercise of mental control is the giving of an order, and it's the exercise of mental control that's prevented.

Once the order is given, you're no longer exercising your mental control; the already-exercised control is what compels them to continue with a task.

-Hyp.

 

[Nail]

If I have cast Dominate Person on you, and you have failed the Will save, do I not exercise mental control over you? Is an actual order required to exercise mental control?

Moreover, once I've given an order, that order is on-going. I'm controlling your mind, even if I neglect to give a second order. Your mind is not your own; it's mine. I control it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If I have cast Dominate Person on you, and you have failed the Will save, do I not exercise mental control over you? Is an actual order required to exercise mental control?

Moreover, once I've given an order, that order is on-going. I'm controlling your mind, even if I neglect to give a second order. Your mind is not your own; it's mine. I control it.

I would say that when you fail the Will save, I have established control, but I have yet to exercise it.

And once I've given the order, while I am in control, I am not exercising that control; I'm completely passive in the process as soon as the order is given.

If I cast the spell, ordered you to sand the floor, and died, you'd continue sanding the floor for 9 days (though since I won't be spending at least a round concentrating on the spell each day, you'll get a fresh saving throw to break the spell each day). The fact that I'm dead doesn't change that once I have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival.

-Hyp.

 

[Nail]

Sure...but whose command is it?

Are you saying that the person who gave the command is not exercising control? Does it really matter that the controller gave only one command?

Such a restricted definition of "exercising control" means that ultimately no one does so, except on their turn, and only during a specfic action during their turn.

I smell a "readied action" argument cropping up.....

 

[Hypersmurf]

Are you saying that the person who gave the command is not exercising control?

Not any more.

Such a restricted definition of "exercising control" means that ultimately no one does so, except on their turn, and only during a specfic action during their turn.

Right.

After that, you follow the command that he gave you when he exercised control.

-Hyp.

 

[Nail]

Couldn't we apply this to every charm spell?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Couldn't we apply this to every charm spell?

Hmm. That's a good question... what does 'exercising control' mean in the case of, say, Charm Person?

"You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do."

I'd say that's certainly 'exercising control'.

"This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target’s attitude as friendly)."

Is the persistence of this regard, already in effect, an exercise of mental control?

Let's take a hypothetical situation. I'm new in town, and I don't have any friends. We both grab our morning coffees at the same cafe; you've seen me a few times, but you don't know me - your attitude is Neutral.

I cast Charm Person on you - your attitude is now Friendly. We hang out for the day - go bowling, have lunch, catch a movie, chat about inconsequentials, and get to know each other. A good time is had by all. After twelve hours, the spell expires.

What's your attitude towards me after the spell expires?

-Hyp.

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

What's your attitude towards me after the spell expires?

Do I know you cast charm person on me? If yes, then that's probably a pretty heavy circumstance penalty on any future attitude checks.