Dominated in to Helpless

[scottchiefbaker]

My wizard has a power that let's me dominate a monster. I'd really like to leverage this to it's fullest, and make the monster end it's turn helpless somehow so the rest of my party can coup-de-grace it.

Is it possible to control the enemy in such a fashion? If not, what's the best use of that enemy to my advantage?

 

[Neonchameleon]

No it isn't - the monster is still fighting back (you could probably make it handcuff itself if you handed it the cuffs - but that's simply restrained). And the best use of dominated depends on the location. Making it do a ranged attack against one of its mates while provoking opportunity attacks is a good one. As is making it run, a few opportunity attacks, and jump down a pit trap.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

The best use of dominate really depends on the encounter. Sometimes that means brining the dominated monster closer to the strikers, other times it means making them run away. Maybe it means moving the controller out of LOE for its zones so it can't sustain them... lots of options.

The rules limit you from being able to make a dominated creature helpless as a cap on the power. Besides, imagine if the DM could do that to your PC! That being said, stealing an action and possibly damaging another enemy is a strong ability.

Re: the pit trap, the monster would get a save against jumping into the pit, and if it failed the save it would still be 'jumping' which could reduce the damage. But that would still put it out of the combat for a round.

 

[Mika]

There are basically two really good options for dealing with a dominated creature:

1) Order him to run into hindering terrain (including over the edge of a cliff, if one is available). Best case, he dies. Worst case, he makes his save and falls prone just before entering the hazard.

2) While he is marked by one of your allies, get him to charge one of his allies. Bonus points if he has to run past your allies to do it. Best case is that your allies reduce him to one hit point with their opportunity attacks and mark punishment and then he crits his ally.

 

[MarauderX]

Would making the enemy run around your allies provoke OA's? Or perhaps throw down their weapon.

 

[Riastlin]

Would making the enemy run around your allies provoke OA's? Or perhaps throw down their weapon.

It does provoke opportunity attacks. The problem with dropping the weapon, etc. is that IIRC, the dominated condition dazes the target, meaning you only get one action. Normally, using that one action to drop the weapon wouldn't be a great decision (imho).

However, in certain instances, it might be worthwhile to have it throw the weapon. If the weapon is not magical, it won't return to its hand. Making a mezzodeamon throw its trident for instance can be good as it takes away one of its main attacks. Generally though, I am in favor of the Charge and/or run past allies to provoke as many OA's as possible.

Note: Your DM may allow you to cause the monster to drop its weapon AND do one of the above actions as well since dropping the weapon is a free action. Per RAW though free actions are still actions so I think they would still take up the sole action for Dazed unless I am missing something on the rules here.

 

[Stalker0]

There are basically two really good options for dealing with a dominated creature:

1) Order him to run into hindering terrain (including over the edge of a cliff, if one is available). Best case, he dies. Worst case, he makes his save and falls prone just before entering the hazard.

Technically movement in this way is not forced movement (which is why it provokes OAs). So the DM could rule that a creature doesn't get a save when it jumps off a cliff because of domination. I think its better to give a save, but I think by the strictest rules definition he wouldn't

 

[eamon]

The dominated condition was explicitly erratad to include a save in such a scenario - just as forced movement does.

I'd interpret the language liberally to mean that obvious suicide attempts grant saves in addition to the normal saves granted by movement into hindering terrain.

Throwing weapons is a poor option in 4e - not from a power perspective, but because the game simply doesn't really support it. A PC would be either utterly crippled and possibly lose a long-term investment, whereas an identical creature built as a monster simply has no rules as to how this affects power usage.

Basically, I'd rule out disarming of any sort until there are actual rules for it - which are easy enough to make up yourself, just make sure you don't derive them by means of "what happens if I build a PC and simply omit a weapon?"

 

[DracoSuave]

Maybe it means moving the controller out of LOE for its zones so it can't sustain them... lots of options.

Personally, I find simply not spending the dominatee's action to sustain its zones has the same effect.