Doors: Arcane Lock and Stone Shape

[Magus Coeruleus]

Hi,

Two questions.

1) Arcane Lock gives a door a +10 to break DC, but it specifies no modifier to hardness/hp if you attempt to chop it down. This seems odd to me. Why should it be harder to break down in one fell swoop, but no harder to hack to bits? Do you really think it ought to be that way, or if not what hardness/hp bonus would you give an Arcane Locked door?

2) Could you use Stone Shape to create enough space between a door and its stone housing to make the door either fall flat or at least make the stone housing come free of the hinges? In short, could you use Stone Shape to get through a non-stone door that's surrounded by stone?

For reference, here is the SRD for each spell

Arcane Lock

Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: The door, chest, or portal touched, up to 30 sq. ft./level in size
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

An arcane lock spell cast upon a door, chest, or portal magically locks it. The character can freely pass the character's own lock without affecting it; otherwise, a door or object secured with arcane lock can be opened only by breaking in or by a successful dispel magic or knock spell. Add +10 to the normal DC to break open a door or portal affected by this spell. Note that a knock spell does not remove an arcane lock. It only suppresses it for 10 minutes.

Stone Shape

Transmutation
Level: Clr 3, Drd 3, Earth 3, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Stone or stone object touched, up to 10 cu. ft. +1 cu. ft./level
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The character can form an existing piece of stone into any shape that suits the character's purpose. For example, the character can make a stone weapon, a special trapdoor, or a crude idol. Stone shape also permits the character to reshape a stone door to make an exit where one didn’t exist or to seal a door shut. While it’s possible to make crude coffers, doors, and so forth with stone shape, fine detail isn’t possible. There is a 30% chance that any shape including moving parts simply doesn’t work.

Thanks

 

[Taloras]

Id say so. it says you can shape 10 cubic feet +1 per level. id say that all youd need to do is shap the stone around the hinges.....and it would fall off

 

[hong]

1) Because arcane lock only affects the lock on the door, not the door itself. Think of it as being like a super-strength padlock. If you put such a padlock on a door that's almost rotted through, the padlock won't be very useful, but it'll still be super-strength.

2) Stone shape should work as you describe, yes.

 

[Mr.Binx]

Because arcane lock only affects the lock on the door, not the door itself. Think of it as being like a super-strength padlock. If you put such a padlock on a door that's almost rotted through, the padlock won't be very useful, but it'll still be super-strength.

Arcane Lock can actually affect any container whether it has a locking mechanism or not (i.e. a jar, a coin pouch, a coffin, etc.). That being known, I would think that the spell actually seals the portal by dimensionally anchoring the lid/door with the surrounding material of the container. This would make the lid/door that much harder to pry open while it's still simple enough to try and break the container or hack through the lid/door itself.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

I guess it makes sense that Arcane Lock only helps with a break down attempt, since at least that's going to seriously slow you down if you have to hack through the door.

For Stone Shape, I'm now a bit concerned that perhaps the spell is meant to affect a discrete stone object or stone block, such as a stone door. If so, then you wouldn't be able to manipulate the stone housing around the door if you couldn't affect the number of cubic feet needed to encompass the entire wall (or a 10x10xthickness section of wall), even though you only cared about a couple of inches around the door. All because the wall is one "object." What do you think?

Thanks again!

 

[Mr.Binx]

Since the spell descriptions refers to the target of the spell as "...an existing piece of stone..." I would infer that it means you can only affect a single piece of stone that is separate from a larger body of stone and no larger than the volume listed in the Target: descriptor (whether or not you were affecting the entire piece of stone or just an inch of it). So, reading the spell in this fashion, a caster would be prevented from reshaping the stone wall that surrounds a door. Summon Monster III on the other hand (3rd level Clr/Wiz/Spr spell) can be used to summon a Thoqqua which is a medium-sized magma-based creature that can burrow through almost anything at 20ft. per round leaving a nice little tunnel behind it for medium-sized creatures to pass through.