[DotF] Anyone tried Sacred Fist?

Malin Genie

First Post
Looking at the Sacred Fist, on paper it seems to be like a cleric/monk, but with more power in exchange for versatility and defensive capacity (spellcasting, can wear light armour, uncanny dodge, but lose out on bonus movement, stunning attack, Will saves and special abilities like leap of the clouds and diamond soul.)

The power actually seems like a lot - full BAB, flurry and good unarmed attack damage; by 6th level Sacred Fist can overcome DR as +3 (and by 8th level can overcome +5 if Wis 14 or higher,) blindsight at 6th, at 8th get Wis bonus to attack and damage (which as far as I can tell, stacks with Strength and greater magic fang bonuses)

However, 'on paper' analysis rarely IME gies a good sense of what a class is 'actually' like in play, so I would be really interested to hear from anyone who has played one (or with one) in a campaign....
 

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I've not played one as a PC, but I've just started using them as NPC's IMC and they don't seem to be overly powerful. They definately don't cut it as a front-line fighter, and only barely lets them fill the role of a monk.

Frex - Taking the armor advantages away from the monk abilities tends to make a huge difference on a 1 to 1 comparison between the sacred fist and the PC monk he's designed to go up against, especially given the fact that the sacred fists then limited to light armour. A character with a dex bonus and masterwork chain shirt doesn't quite cut it against a monk with a potion of cats grace and wisdom :) Most of the other abilities rely on the sacred fist being up close and personal, so the lack of decent armour really does hurt.

Combat casting is kinda nasty - especially if you cast any of the cause wound spells and use a punch attack to deliver them.

Altough the pussiant fist ability isn't that important as an NPC, I don't see it as being all that imbalanced in the long run. Even working to get the class asap, I can't figure any way of getting '+3' fists before roughly character level eleven (ftr4, clr1, sacred 6). Probably a little soon for some campaigns, but it evens out in the end. Most would probably not take the class until much later, getting this ability around 12-14th level, which is more or less right.

All in all, I think it looks less balanced than it is. I mostly added it in because it fit a concept I'd already developed - time saving mostly. If I was a player, I doubt I'd really prefer the sacred fist over a straigh cleric, fighter cleric or monk.
 

I am playing a Fighter 2 / Shaman 3 / Sacred Fist 1.

I just made Sacred Fist last session but I am really looking forward to it. Next level I may take Shaman 4, and pick up Improved Grapple-- combine a grapple attack with an unarmed strike (and then just choke the bezeezus out of them...)

I'm also on target to get one of the martial arts masteries-- Empty Hand, I think it is called-- that bumps up my unarmed damage by a whole die category. I need one more feat at 9th level to accomplish this.

At 11th level I will be Ftr 2 / Sha 4 / Sacred Fist 5. My unarmed strikes at that point (I think) will be 2d6 each.

I'm looking forward to it.

If you think of the Sacred Fist in terms of what he can add to the Shaman class-- as opposed to comparing him to a cleric or a monk-- it makes a lot more sense.

Wulf
 

+3 weapons are going to be around from level 9 up. Check out Greater Magic Weapon, or Greater Magic Fang. If using a fairly inexpensive item to boost caster level, then +4 weapons are possible at level 8.

It's not that big of deal to hit as +3 at level 11.
 

Definately not balanced, especially from a character archetype point of view. From my personal experience, the Sacred Fist is the FAR better choice for a player who wants to be the true "master" of unarmed fighting. His abilities simply better replicate the archetypal butt whipping martial artist of film than the actual Monk class.

Problems with a straight Cleric/Sacred Fist:

1) He gains the ability to hit up to +4 at level nine, without the Wisdom bonus from No Shadow. Coming straight from Cleric, that's level 15. Versus the Monk, who, at level 16, can effect +3 This is already one better than the monk, the "master" of unarmed combat. Then, add in the fact that at 8th level, the Sacred Fist adds his Wisdom to the existing bonus and you're looking at a +5, period. In other words, no need to waste a Greater Magic Weapon spell.

2) He can wear light armor. Decent magical light armor not only adds to AC, it can possess special powers. Probably will too, since a Sacred Fist won't be spending any money on weapons.

3) Uncanny Dodge. The monk, the "master" of unarmed combat, based off characters in martial arts movies who routinely fight a dozen men simultaneously, doesn't get Uncanny Dodge. To me, the Sacred Fist having this ability is particularly galling.

4) Blindsight 30'. Stacked with Uncanny Dodge it makes the Sacred Fist 90% invulnerable to Sneak Attack.

5) Sacred Flame. d6 + Wis + Class levels, max 15, at will. In other words, Starting at 7th level, the Sacred Fist does 11-15 damage with every hit, more than the average monk with d20 is going to do.

6) Inner Armor. Makes up for the lack of Wisdom bonus to AC by adding a +4 to AC and Saves 10 times a day for Wisdom bonus rounds each. At 20th level, WoTC's guidelines say a character will have a 26 in their prime stat. So, 8 rounds at a shot.

7) Spells. 5th level as a cleric + 4th level as a Sacred Fist. Bull's Strength. Endurance. Healing spells. Righteous Might. Hold Person. Slay living. New domain too.

What he loses compared to the Monk:

1) SR. Probably the worst thing, but a straight class cleric doesn't get it either (except by 5th level spell).

2) Movement. The monk is fast. Very useful for getting to enemies quickly. The monk has abundant step (which some clerics can duplicate). Both monk and Sacred Fist can go Ethereal, but the Sacred Fist can do it more than once at a MUCH lower level.

3) Stunning Fist 20 times a day. Should he choose a Cleric can take a feat to do this, though not as often. Alternately, he can just cast Hold Person.

4) Saves. Slightly better than the Sacred Fist. Without Stat bonus: Monk 12, 12, 12. Sacred Fist 14, 10, 10.

5) d20 damage. Potentially slightly more damage than a Sacred Fist.

6) Extra unarmed attacks at a lower BAB. Good for low AC opponents, almost useless against decent AC.

To make things worse:

Take 1 level of monk with your Cleric levels to qualify for Sacred Fist. Skip the armor and gain Wis bonus to your AC on top of all the rest. Perfectly valid as a character concept too.

Even worse:Ranger/Sacred Fist. You get:

1) Fighter BAB. Meaning you have a Flurry that stands a good chance of hitting on a regular basis.

2) Good saves.

3) ACTUAL CLASS ABILITIES PAST LEVEL 1 as a Ranger!!!!!
:)

4) Good skill list. And hey, a ranger with Blindsight! Take that, Legolas!

5) Free domain. Ranger doesn't start with one, so this is just a great bonus.

6) Qualify at 4th level if human.

To make the class really good, go Rng/Mnk/SF. Perfectly valid as a character concept and you gain Wis bonus to AC, Improved Unarmed Attack for free and an extra boost to saves.
 

My favorite "fast path" (not "optimized path") towards the Sacred Fist: Paladin 4 (with at least 12 in Wisdom, but that's a vital stat for the Sacred Fist too) -> Sacred Fist.
 


Sacred Fist

I had a character who was a Mnk 2/ Pal 4 gunning for Sacred fist. The campign ended before I got there though, which was a shame I was looking forward to the divine might backed holy beatdown.

-Andor

"I kick ass for the lord."
 

Which way to go?

I am currently Bbn2/Rgr1.

If I decide to go for Sacred Fist, am I better off with Bbn4/Rgr1/Clr1 (for extra rage, getting uncanny dodge faster, clerical domain abilities and +2 Will save) or Bbn2/Rgr4 or Rgr5 (animal companion, BAB 1 better, skills, better favoured enemy bonus if wait until Rgr5)?
(Actually I can get there slightly faster still as Bbn2/Rgr1/Clr1/Ftr1/Sac1 - using the fighter level to get IUS - and the +11 base fort save would qualify me for Dragon's Toughness at 6th level!!!)
 

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