Double Question

[Eltern]

I realize that there's been a lot of crap about Vow of Poverty, however, in whatever form it's in, this question still applies:

Do grafts count?

I wanted to make a character who was "uber evil" who saw the light, and part of this involved having fiendish and/or chaositech (yay monte) grafts added on before he changed. After this change of heart, he donated all his belongings to the poor, bla bla, Vow of Poverty. He would then have this continual battle between his old self, in the form of the grafts, versus the good guy he's trying to be. Then I thought "Wait... is that cheating?"

The grafts are basically "items" but are distinctly nonremovable. Some of my friends say they're ok, since I'm doing this for largely roleplaying and "nifty" effects, not powergaming (really, I swear! ), but I can still see this as being overpowering for the VoP feat. Basically, I think it's breaking the spirit of the law (usually), but not the letter of the law.

Thoughts?

Secondly: Do natural armour bonuses stack? I assumed they didn't, until I looked at the wording of the grafts...

Thanks,
Eltern

 

[MerakSpielman]

I would rule that he has to get rid of the grafts. If he wants, he can get Regenerated or Healed afterwards.

Bonuses of the same type don't stack. The only exception is Dodge bonuses (and frankly, I'm not sure why they needed an exception). If you have natural armor +3 and an amulet of natural armor +5, your total natural armor bonus is only +5 (the best bonus).

Exactly how are the grafts worded that make this seem confusing?

 

[CRGreathouse]

If you have natural armor +3 and an amulet of natural armor +5, your total natural armor bonus is only +5 (the best bonus).

Well, not in 3.5...

 

[MerakSpielman]

CRGreathouse, you are correct. In 3.5, like bonuses still do not stack, but the amulet grants an enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 to the creature's natural armor score.
edit: I think this might be because Natural Armor is no longer applicable as a type of bonus. Is this correct?

 

[Eltern]

Confusion

Grafts:
Yuan-ti Scaly Skin "Improves natural armor bonus by +3"
Undead Bonemail "Grant a +2 natural armor bonus"
Fiendish Skin "Improves the grafted creature's natural armor bonus by +1"

?


Eltern

 

[MerakSpielman]

OK, these are treating natural armor as a type of bonus, which might not be fully 3.5 complient. As best as I can tell...:

Scaly Skin & Fiendish Skin: These do not in themselves provide bonuses - they instead increase an existing bonus by a set number. Since they're not strictly speaking bonuses, stacking rules don't really apply.

Undead Bonemail: Grants a +2 natural armor bonus. This looks like it wouldn't stack with other things that provide a natural armor bonus. It is describing natural armor as a type of bonus, not as an increase to an existing bonus like the skins.

Conclusion: I have a feeling the grafts bit was edited poorly. If your creature has a +0 natural armor bonus and applies all three of those grafts, it looks like their total natural armor bonus would be +6. On the other hand, if they already had a +2 natural armor bonus, the Bonemail wouldn't stack and your bonus would still be +6. It seems kind of funky to me.