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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dandu" data-source="post: 5172334" data-attributes="member: 85158">Hold on. Dwarves fight giants enough to get special bonuses vs them, so one can reasonably assume that giants probably know what a Dwarven Defender is. It would be reasonable to extrapolate this to orcs and goblinoids as well. Probably also to Duergar as well. Maybe the Drow and other Underdark races, if your Dwarves live in the Underdark.Actually, the Barbarian may be better depending on how he's built. At least the Barbarian doesn't have to select three crappy feats.Let's see...HP: Both have d12 HD, though you enter Dwarven defender from a class with lower HD in core.Will Saves: Dwarven Defender has a base will save (around +10 assuming Fighter entry) higher than the Barbarian's +6, although the barbarian gets a +4 bonus from Rage, and +4 against enchantments from Indomitable Will. Advantage to the Defender, but it is close.Skills: Clear win for the Barbarian, unless Dwarven Defender was entered with Ranger. (Though Horizon Walker is much better for Rangers)Special abilities: Rage is better than Defensive Stance.DR: About the same. Dwarven Defender is slightly better. Barbarian gets his sooner. In both cases, the DR isn't very useful at the level they get it at.Trapsense: Barbarian wins with a +6 compared to the Dwarven Defender's +2. Trapsense is rather weak on the whole, however.Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny dodge: Both get this, but the Barbarian gets it much sooner.Mobility: Barbarian wins.AC: Defender wins this one by at least +4AC assuming all else is equal. More when the Barbarian is raging. Even more when he's in his stance.Ability to kill things brutally and utterly without mercy: Barbarian.</blockquote>

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