• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

Draft chase rules

Asmor

First Post
I picked up the Pathfinder chase cards, with an eye to using them in a 5th edition game. The conversion doesn't seem like it'd be too difficult (probably want to reduce the scaling of DCs), but what I really figured out from looking at them was that I wanted something meatier.

So I've come up with this draft of a system where you'd have different locations, and each location has its own little map and rules. I've got three locations built already; two very simple, and one that's probably the most complex thing I could see myself doing.

Sorry for the external link... It requires some special formatting which would be a pain in the butt to reproduce in here. :/

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1efUq3Brm7AHxtwsfeEj_zWnS9S1eFGHq3aPDCuia3xo
 

log in or register to remove this ad

The chase is really tough to model in RPGs, and some systems are better designed to encourage it than others. D&D, perhaps unfortunately, is at the hard end of the scale (FATE is much more amenable).

Your rules may work fine (I've just glanced at them, and not played them), but they do not feel like D&D to me.

1. Constitution. Dex is the core ability here, which seems wrong to me for most chases. Dex is already overpowered in the game (giving one more quality is icing the cake with a fourth or fifth layer of icing). Sure, dodging and weaving, but since Dex doesn't affect your base speed (the only stat reasonably tied to speed is Strength), it seems forced. What I would prefer to see is something tied to Consititution -- for anything approaching a real chase, that seems to me to be the most applicable stat (especially given the fixed movement rates in D&D).

2. Encumbrance. While verisimilitude is always difficult, I would want to see someone who dropped their stuff and ran to be more effective in a chase than someone who didn't -- enforcing the variant encumbrance rule (p. 176) -- if only for the chase -- would be one step towards that (it's not perfect, but I do like it, and it gets rid of some silliness in weights carried).

3. Rogues. Two of the weaker classes have altered movement rates: Monk's unarmoured movement gives a flat bonus (which you include in the advantage mechanic); rogue's cunning action allows 90' move/turn instead of a normal 60' (which you do not). By not accommodating classes that specialize in movement, you remove some strengths of those classes.

4. Longer chases. The examples you give are quite short; often chases are longer and through a city lot labyrinth -- that obviously is where endurance comes into it, but sight lines, etc. become a factor.

5. While you are using initiative order, that too seems counter-intuitive, since it will mean some chases are over before they start. That may be what you want, but it means much of the complication of a chase mechanic just isn't needed.

I hope this outlines why I'd have reservations with this proposal in D&D; I know I have struggled to write effective chase rules in another game. In certain games, these might work very well.
 

1. Constitution. Dex is the core ability here, which seems wrong to me for most chases. Dex is already overpowered in the game (giving one more quality is icing the cake with a fourth or fifth layer of icing). Sure, dodging and weaving, but since Dex doesn't affect your base speed (the only stat reasonably tied to speed is Strength), it seems forced. What I would prefer to see is something tied to Consititution -- for anything approaching a real chase, that seems to me to be the most applicable stat (especially given the fixed movement rates in D&D).

This is good feedback, and something I was thinking about myself (although I never actually really even thought of Con... I was more trying to consider what situation would warrant a strength check, but not an athletics check). I really like the idea of using con for the open ground location; make it a test of endurance rather than speed.

2. Encumbrance. While verisimilitude is always difficult, I would want to see someone who dropped their stuff and ran to be more effective in a chase than someone who didn't -- enforcing the variant encumbrance rule (p. 176) -- if only for the chase -- would be one step towards that (it's not perfect, but I do like it, and it gets rid of some silliness in weights carried).

I tend not to think about encumbrance at all, because I never use it. As someone with no experience with that particular system, I wouldn't want to try and design any mechanics based around it.

3. Rogues. Two of the weaker classes have altered movement rates: Monk's unarmoured movement gives a flat bonus (which you include in the advantage mechanic); rogue's cunning action allows 90' move/turn instead of a normal 60' (which you do not). By not accommodating classes that specialize in movement, you remove some strengths of those classes.

When I was first thinking about this, I'd actually considered basing it more heavily on combat, even letting people in adjacent spaces attack each other. One of the issues I came up with that was that Rogues, getting 3 movements per turn, would be massively over-powered.

The chase is meant to be more abstract, and speed generally doesn't matter that much except for very specific cards. I also think it's reasonable to say that the rogue's cunning action isn't really meant to increase the class's overall movement rate by 50%; I wouldn't allow them to keep that speed up for a sustained period.

4. Longer chases. The examples you give are quite short; often chases are longer and through a city lot labyrinth -- that obviously is where endurance comes into it, but sight lines, etc. become a factor.

Maybe it wasn't clear, but the locations are meant to be modular. So you could have one chase that takes place over Open Ground, then the Rope Bridge, then Dense Foliage, and finally another open ground. You can make them go as long as you want. Obviously I need to make more locations for variety's sake, though.

5. While you are using initiative order, that too seems counter-intuitive, since it will mean some chases are over before they start. That may be what you want, but it means much of the complication of a chase mechanic just isn't needed.

If people are being pursued, they should be given a head start. Each round, people farthest ahead move first. Initiative only matters for for people in the same spot (or equivalent spots). So having a high initiative doesn't let you catch up to people faster, it just makes it a little easier for you to get ahead of them if you're tied with them.

I hope this outlines why I'd have reservations with this proposal in D&D; I know I have struggled to write effective chase rules in another game. In certain games, these might work very well.

This was very helpful, thanks!
 

Chases are extremely tough in D&D. Many characters have easy ways to quickly boost their speed. And if you use those ways for the runner, he could escape before any pc's even get a chance. I run chases in my games quite often, as they are a great story telling element. Here's how I do it. I ignore the rules.

In a chase, the idea is to be a quick as possible. A chase is a high energy scene, and slowing it down with any dice rolls completely defeats the purpose. Also, chase scenes work well when its one on one. Running a chase with a full party usually ends up a silly mess. Here are some tips:

  • If the whole party is involved, give them something to do. The party chases the assassin through the streets, but around every corner a thug waits to trip a PC. Each PC then gets a 1on1 with a guy while one of them continues the chase.
  • Describe the situation in quick details, and always keep the action moving.
  • success is determined by successful actions or failures. For instance, the assassin is escaping and being chased by the rogue. The assassin runs past some trash buckets and tips them over. When addressing the player, keep things simple: "The assassin ducks around a corner and you quickly follow only to find trash bins kicked over, what do you do?" Dont make them roll a check, thats lame. Ask them. If they are Dexterous they will say i jump over. If they have str, they might plow through. If they quickly say, I jump over them, they do so. If they sit and think for more than 5 seconds, I tell them they trip on them and lose time.
  • If the pcs want to use abilities let them. This is D&D and they can do some cool things. Cunning action? Monk speed? Magic Missile? Far shots? sure! Doesnt mean they will stop the chase outright... sometimes it takes a few successes, but remember casting and moving might slow them down.
  • This is D&D (didnt I say that already?) If a chase happens its either because a)the runner wants it to happen, or b)something happened and the runner messed up. Chases leading into ambushes are awesome. But if an assassin runs, its because they cant escape with plan A. Any smart assassin will have safe houses, or contingency plans (ladders, barrels, change of clothes, etc.).
  • As a DM, get in the mindset for chases that you WANT your runners to be caught. Give the PCs a tough go at it, but let them get this small victory. Nothing is worse than chasing some street urchin cutpurse as 5th level characters and not catching her. Makes everyone feel useless. And what did they gain by catching her? If you want something to happen, make it happen 3 different ways, and the runner might only be 1 way.
  • Interrogating a runner is a GREAT exposition chance, also a great way to throw off PCs. Here's a guy running for his life, now we caught him red handed, he HAS to be telling the truth.


Keep the energy high.
 

Yeah, I get what you're trying to do but basically all you're trying to answer in a chase is whether somebody gains ground, loses ground, or neither.

If you want to use the regular mechanics, you can. Things to keep in mind with a chase and the way D&D is structured:
I would use group initiative.

Assuming all else is equal, everybody moves their full rate. Thus if a creature with a move of 30 ft is chasing a creature with a move of 30 ft, and they are 50 ft ahead of them, then that doesn't change unless something changes it. Think in terms of +/- rounds.

I agree that you should look at the encumbrance rules for chases even if you don't use them otherwise. Prepare ahead of the session. You're just trying to account for speed differences.

Assume everybody is moving using Dash. There's a limit to how long somebody can do this, although not in the rules. So I would suggest something like their Constitution modifier in minutes. After that they can only move 1 1/2x for an equal amount of time, then 1x, etc. You could start introducing Constitution checks to maintain speed. This may sound short, but if they have a +2 modifier that's 20 rounds. You could do 2x Constitution modifier if you'd like.

The quarry will look for opportunities to slow their pursuers and to escape. I'd apply a move penalty for a bonus action to knock over trash cans, etc. Perhaps 5 ft. In return, it makes the terrain difficult for the pursuers.

If the quarry is far enough ahead that when they go around a corner they will remain unseen for the round (they are 80 feet ahead of pursuers moving at a Dash of 60), then they can make a Hide check. The conditions will impact this. Unless they are really able to escape, it will probably only extend the distance a bit (you round the corner and the thief has disappeared, you start searching in garbage cans, behind debris and you hear, then see him climbing ducking into a window on the second floor...)

You can make proficiency checks or you could use passive stealth and perception checks.

Personally I think that you do want to include some die rolls in the process. Descriptions back and forth should be a primary mechanic, but I think that the randomness of the dice rolls builds excitement.

Ultimately you're looking for easy ways to determine if the distance between the parties is extended or lessened, eventually to the point of being caught, or to where escape is possible. I don't think escape should be a die roll, or even a point on a flow chart or rules. It should fit the specific chase.


I do agree that you need to determine ahead of time what the acceptable outcomes are. I'd refrain from making them always catch their quarry, just like I don't think the PCs should always escape. It's best to know what will happen in either case unless there's a reason for a specific end result.

So here's a quick example:

The PCs round the corner and down the street one of the city guard spots them.

This shows the more complicated game mechanics version first.
Speed: each PC and guard is 30. The fighter is encumbered so has a move of 20.
Distance: There's 120 feet between them at start. Because of the move difference it will take them 3 rounds to catch up.
Time: PCs modifiers range from +0 to +3, but the PCs won't leave one of their party behind; guards have +0 to +3.
PCs win initiative

You don't need to keep track of everybody per se. If the party will stay together then they are moving at a Dash of 40. But the rogue chooses to run ahead to hide and maintains his Dash of 60.

At the end of the first round the PCs run down the alley, except the rogue who stops to hide. The guards are -100 (ft).

At the end of the second round, the guards are rounding the corner and -80.

3rd round: The rogue makes a shove attack with advantage (hidden, passive perception didn't overcome, guards weren't looking for somebody hidden). The thief succeeds and knocks him prone, making him difficult terrain. The rogue uses Cunning Action to dodge and runs down the alley (-60). The guards must make a Dex save or trip, two do, one doesn't and also falls prone. They use a half move to get up and run down the hall (-90), the one that didn't fall loses 5 ft (1 ft per ft of difficult terrain) so is a 5 ft behind the rogue (-65).

4th round: Rogue is at -40, guard at -45, and other guards at -70.

5th round: Rogue -20, guard -25, others at -50. The party rounds the corner into the next street.

6th round: Fighter drops caltrops, rogue rounds corner (dodging) and gets Dex save with advantage, succeeds. He's caught up with the party. The guard behind him fails his Dex save and is stopped by the caltrops. The other guards are now at -30 and just rounding the corner.

7th round: Guards avoid the caltrops, but it's difficult terrain (actually, they either jump over the 5 ft or run around), but lose 5 ft in the process. So they are now at -15.

8th round: The rogue dumps a cart of vegetables in front of the guards. Two make their Dex save, one fails and is knocked prone. The other two are slowed by 5 ft and are right behind the party (lost 5, gained 20).

9th round: (two guards left), one tries to grab the rogue and succeeds, they are grappled. The second tries to grab the mage and misses.

10th round: The guard stopped by the vegetables sees the the other guard has caught the rogue and heads over. The rogue and other guard are grappling. The rogue escapes the grapple and runs, the guard has reached his limit and can't maintain the pace, decides to go after the rest of the party. The fighter has also reached his limit running (+1) and must slow next round. So now the party is engaged with three guards, and the rogue has run down the street and ducked into a doorway.

Not a big deal, but a lot to track. One option is using two or three ten-sided dice for each group as markers for how far behind a group is (in ft) works well. In this particular example they move 20 feet closer each round unless delayed.

Here's the same chase, but using a simpler alternative.

Using a d10, set it at 5 to begin. If something occurs that causes the pursuers to lose ground, then increase the number on the die by 1. If they gain ground, reduce it by 1. If nothing happens that round, leave it the same.

The guards are faster, so:

Round one and two they gain ground (4, then 3 on the d10).

Round three the rogue attacks, and succeeds in delaying the guards. If you don't feel like tracking multiple groups, assume the rogue rejoins the party, so the guards are at 4.

Round 4 and 5 are chasing, gaining ground (2)

Round 6, caltrops. Roll for effect, success 50% stopped. Guards lose ground (3).

Round 7 and 8 they gain ground (1).

Round 9, rogue tips cart, lose ground (2).

Round 10, gain ground (1)

At this point some of them will not be able to continue running, and the guards have caught up anyway.

It's much easier to track, and it's the same basic concept of advantage/disadvantage. Instead of tracking every possible modifier, just jump to the result. For things like the shove, caltrops, and cart, you can still make die rolls normally. If some of the guards succeed, and others don't, it's just a question as to whether they give up altogether, or if they are farther back. How far doesn't really matter, if the PCs are caught you'd just decide how many rounds behind the first guard(s) they are as to when they show up.

Ilbranteloth
 

There needs to be more randomness in speed. Otherwise two character with the same base speeds will never pull away from each other. Allow a burst of speed equal to +1d6 speed per point of Con bonus for 1 round per total Con. Something like that. Adjust the numbers and formula, but add a random element.
 

There needs to be more randomness in speed. Otherwise two character with the same base speeds will never pull away from each other. Allow a burst of speed equal to +1d6 speed per point of Con bonus for 1 round per total Con. Something like that. Adjust the numbers and formula, but add a random element.

That certainly wouldn't break anything. I might require a CON check, or limit the number of times it could be used. On the other hand, both the pursued and pursuer can do it. It might shorten the chase scene a bit. Otherwise I would rely on things like terrain penalties (for obstacles thrown in the way, stairs, climbing a fence, etc.). Make a DC to topple the obstacle, and/or a DEX check to avoid it or take a move penalty.

The 3rd Ed allowed up to 4x your base speed (approx 14 mph with a base of 30). I seem to recall that there were limits to how long you could maintain that, but don't remember it offhand.

Ilbranteloth
 

Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top