Dragon 300 a bad idea

[derverdammte]

In the word of the Great Gygax:

Poppycock!

Incidentally, IIRC, that term's taken from a Dutch word meaning "soft feces." Definitely an appropriate term. =)

 

[Tsyr]

The premise is that roleplaying evil actions is harmful.

The Columbine killers have been documented as fantasizing (at the very least internally roleplaying) completely dominating other people to the point of killing them.

This reminds me of something we learned in a statistics class in college...

Did you know that ice cream causes people to drown?

Really, it's true!

Look at the statistics.

There are more cases of death by drowning in the summer.

More icecream is sold in the summer.

Thus, icecream must be linked to drowning, right?

Of course not.

I reject your initial premise in the first place, and discount your columbine arguement as trying to use a symptom as a cause. I would bet most killers (Premeditated killers, anyhow) have had fantasies of killing or dominating people in their life. I'd bet this is true as far back as you care to go, 2K, the 50s, the dark ages, you name it. I think the two probably are found together quite often.

Likewise, people swimming on a beach in the summer are very likely to have eaten icecream in the recent past.

That does NOT mean the icecream made them drown, nor does it mean the violent fantasies made them kill people.

 

[Ranger REG]

For Dragon to encourage negative fantasies is harmful to the hobby as well as to its participants who take that advice.

I hope you are also preaching to the fans of White Wolf's World of Darkness product line (Vampire, Werewolf, Wraith, Mummy, etc.). They are selling well (second place to D&D), and they does not carry a "17 and Older" label.

 

[Xarlen]

I've sat and read through 80+ posts, and I have to say that I am Insulted.

People who who say that, just because I might enjoy playing an evil character, or in an evil campaign, I am a Terrorist, I just have to stare at in Shock.

For starters, this is a Game of Make Believe. Nothing is real. If I blow away an NPC in a game, it means nothing more then Xp. If I blow away someone in real life, that means a Life I have ended. It means relatives who are now missing their family member, someone who could contribute to society, someone who could have had the cure for cancer. It means I have removed a life from this world, and done something Wrong.

If I kill someone in a Game, that means I'm no longer encountering them. It has no more impact on the gameworld then what the DM decides, or what concequences come back to bite me.

People who suggest that playing an Evil character means that that person will become evil, or want to do horrid, vile acts, I have to say Huh? to.

In a game, I could be a lich. A vampire. A crazy dwarf with split personalities. A deranged barbarian. A monk who thinks he's 'culling the weak', a wizard who is selfish enough not to care about anyone But himself, in achieving power.

Does that mean that I am any of these? No. I am me. These characters are all fictional things. If you start thinking of yourself by the actions of your character, then wouldn't that suggest that the breach between Reality and Fantasy are being weakened? I do not define myself for how a fictional representation of a person in a fantasy world does; I define myself on how *I* feel, and who *I* am. I am no more Vlad the Impaler, then I am Rechan the Kobold Wizard.

I know the difference between reality, fantasy, right and wrong.

Those who Do Not, well, then they have a problem.

Sitting and playing a character who does bad things is just like sitting and playing a computer game like Grand Theft Auto #3, Hitman, etc.

When you play in a game that promotes Theft, Casting Spells, Killing things, and coexisting with evil beings, then how can you say that just because you do more, defines who you are as a person? If you want to think like that, then fine: The ends don't justify the means.

Therefore there cannot be no good Rogues, because stealing is wrong, and thus you're evil. Robin Hood is just as bad as Jeffory Dommers.

Also, let us consider this: If I watch or play something that suggests illegal or bad acts, that makes me bad? Then why are Horror movies 'okay' in our society? Wouldn't these be burned at the square? You have killing, gore, rape, etc, etc in them.

What about TV shows like the Sopranos? The mafia is bad. We shouldn't watch it, because it's bad. If we watch it, then we're bad.

Bah, I say. Bah.

Just because I want to play a thug in a Mafia campaign, just because I want to play a scheming backstabbing Noble in a City campaign, Just because I want to play a necromancer who regards human life like a scientist regards mice, I Do Not.

 

[Tsyr]

I hope you are also preaching to the fans of White Wolf's World of Darkness product line (Vampire, Werewolf, Wraith, Mummy, etc.). They are selling well (second place to D&D), and they does not carry a "17 and Older" label.

We have our own defense mechanism... the books are so poorly designed, jarring to read (Ok... I was reading about clan life... now I'm reading about unrelated topic A.... now I'm reading about unrelated topic B... now I've got some stats for Unreleated Topic A... now I'm back to clan life... Ooo, some stat's for something that hasn't even been talked about yet...), and the rules so strange that the youngens' don't generaly bother

 

[Xarlen]

I'm surprised the Terrorist finger-pointers havn't mentioned Afghanistan d20.

Although, I wouldn't touch the product myself, but that's IMO.

 

[Ranger REG]

I'm surprised the Terrorist finger-pointers havn't mentioned Afghanistan d20.

Although, I wouldn't touch the product myself, but that's IMO.

I have touched it. In fact, I bought it after having heard some good reviews and I concur with them. Before this, when I first heard of the book a few months ago (March?), I was skeptical.

Like GDW's Desert Shield and Desert Storm Factbooks, the book by Holistic Design (whose authors are Gulf War veterans) is well-written with regards to providing information on the history of Afghanistan. Taliban, and Al Qaeda. The game is set so you can play soldiers of the US military or of the Northern Alliance who opposes the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

The book wasn't graphic, just textbook information or as if reading from a newspaper.

Am I a terrorist for currently playing a blended Spycraft/Afghanistan d20 campaign?

 

[SemperJase]

I know the difference between reality, fantasy, right and wrong.

Those who Do Not, well, then they have a problem.

Sitting and playing a character who does bad things is just like sitting and playing a computer game like Grand Theft Auto #3, Hitman, etc.

[/b

I agree, and people shouldn't play those games either. They are sending the message that evil actions are "fun".

Also, let us consider this: If I watch or play something that suggests illegal or bad acts, that makes me bad? Then why are Horror movies 'okay' in our society? Wouldn't these be burned at the square? You have killing, gore, rape, etc, etc in them.

In fact, these movies are largely rejected by society. Their box office receipts do not come anywhere near the popularity of "family" movies. Consider this, something like 9 out of the top 10 selling movies of all time are rated PG or G.

 

[bolen]

why does "mature" mean dealing with subjects like rape; in very adolescent terms. I would venture to say that there are many sexually repressed teens who read dragon. What is "mature" about saying you might have a PC raped. The article said that but gave no real insight into how this would effect your game. I am a huge fan of crime lit but this is just fanning the flames. Why did dragon think that this is either "mature" or good for gamers. It seems to be to be bad taste for the sake of bad taste.

 

[Tsyr]

I agree, and people shouldn't play those games either.

Ok, now you just crossed over the little line in my head from "person I disagree with" to something a bit worse. I don't care if you like the games. I don't care if you say publishers shouldn't publish them. But saying people shouldn't play them -flat out just saying it like that- is going too far.

In fact, these movies are largely rejected by society. Their box office receipts do not come anywhere near the popularity of "family" movies. Consider this, something like 9 out of the top 10 selling movies of all time are rated PG or G.

Because they do not do well does not mean our society rejects them. It means the don't appeal to as wide of an audience. I know a ton of people who have have absolutely zero interest in horror or action movies, but I only know of one (Well, two now, I guess) who actualy say they are bad and "reject" them. I have zero interest in most G rated movies too, but I don't "reject" them.