Dragon 338: Returning to Athas, part1

[AbdulAlhazred]

Sounds to me like the whole genocide theme may not even exist. I don't recall anything about it in the original setting, it was more of a later addition to explain the lack of certain races. It may also have been apocryphal.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

It may also have been apocryphal.

No, it wasn't apocryphal.

I don't recall it being mentioned in the original boxed set, maybe it was, but if it wasn't it was because I recall it being written from the perspective of the current inhabitants. In novels that were release immediately with the original set had the characters discover pieces of the timelost history, including the origin of the Sorcerer Kings as genocidal generals.

 

[Perun]

They are not. Actually, they are not either way of spelling them. In Dark Sun they have been spelled ruvoka.

It looks like that book is notable for the misspellings.

Ah, thanks. I never actively used the DS setting (although I've been intrigued by it, and am eagerly awaiting the 4e version), and I never connected ruvoka with the setting. My only experience with them was from the PS, and now, after reading that PLANESCAPE-L comment, I seem to remember being confused with the alternate spelling.

Thanks for the explanation!

Regards.

 

[Obryn]

FWIW, Bloodsand Arena (the freebie) specifically calls out lists of monsters which are thematic for Dark Sun. And it says basically any insectoid or reptilian doodad will work. Goblins aren't on the list

I just don't think they'll be mentioned at all in the hardcover.

-O

 

[Savevsdeath]

I'm personally less interested in "remaining faithful" then in "being awesome." I don't have much use for historic purity or nostalgia, but awesome in any form is always welcome. The original had indisputable awesome in that brutal world. Isolation enhances that awesome. Low-level 2e didn't have blink elves, after all. And without traditional D&D magic, planehopping player characters weren't much of a concern. If you can run away to a better place by being a 1st level blink elf, it's not much of a Crapsack World, it's just a crapsack neighborhood. Which is nice and evocative, until you move out.

I mean, that's part of why "the gods are silent" has such potency for a player: you are alone, a happy afterlife does not await you, and there is no escape from the brutal world you were born into. That's what motivates you to do Heroic Things like kill sorcerer-kings. The planar isolation goes hand-in-hand with that, I feel.

And, yeah, I'm a little disappointed about how the Feywild is a "magic desert," and the eladrin are basically psionic magicians instead of arcane magicians. For the first, I don't get why magic deserts have to be on an all-new plane (Athas can't have magic deserts without it being the Feywild? Isn't the whole setting basically a giant magical desert? Aren't all those mysterious places he mentioned as inspiration in the real-world deserts?), and for the second, it seems overly cosmetic (I am still a shiny spellcasting teleporting squishy elf, even if my damage + status effects have a slightly different name).

Not that I can't do what I want with the place, of course. And I certainly will, because this is hardly a deal-breaker. Just that, for me, a game of heroic survival sort of requires a large amount of isolation to make the survival significant. Years of survival horror fiction would agree with me: it is important that the protagonists cannot reach the outside. Years of postapocalyptic fiction would also concur: it is important that, as far as the protagonists know, there is no escape from this brutal existence (save perhaps death or perhaps heroic change or, sometimes, one legendary Promised Land).

And to that guy at my table who always plays Eladrin, I will say this: "Why do you play eladrin? What's your archetype here? Shiny, aloof, wise, nature-friendly, squishy mage? Try a Noble who is also a Preserver. Nature-mage? Have you given the Primal power-source a look? Wanna be Legolas? Try a standard Elf. Just love the mobility mechanics? I hear Thri-Kreen have an awesome jump ability. Just want the ability scores, act all superior, and hug trees? Heck, use the stats, I'm calling you a 'human,' and we're both happy. You're weird for a human, but whatever. "

I'd rather help them realize how their preferred character elements, whatever they really love about their blink elves, fits into Dark Sun without the need for world elements that I think disrupt the feel, like a Feywild, or a whole race of squishy mages (not arcane mages, but still...).

It's kind of a downer for Dark Sun, but I can presumably ignore it there. It's kind of a bigger downer that even in a world that deliberately and gleefully violates all sorts of standard fantasy tropes, sacrificing sacred fantasy cows like there was a hamburger shortage, the team won't dare to put their own sacred cows on the butchering line. It makes me a little cautious of settings from WotC in general. If everything is just going to essentially look like the PHB with a fresh coat of paint, then it's not really delivering what I, as a voracious consumer of settings, am looking for: a unique play experience. Different adventures to go on. Different kinds of heroes to be. Different realities to understand. Different worlds to explore. If even a world without nature and magic needs a Feywild, for whatever reason (appeasing Eladrin fangirls, ensuring PHB compatibility, or just maintaining Brand Identity across settings), the chances of getting a setting that is compelling and unique enough to demand my attention (and, ultimately, purchase) appears to drop.

At the moment, though, all I can really say is that Rich Baker's post about the Eladrin of Athas sounds like it takes a bit of the awesome of the setting and sells it up the river in an attempt to placate PHB purists. Which is a bit disappointing. Though not the end of the world.

So what you're trying to say is you REALLY REALLY REALLY HATE ELADRIN.

Amirite?

 

[Jhaelen]

And it says basically any insectoid or reptilian doodad will work.

Yup. Thinking back to 2e, everything cat-like should be fine, too, and everything dog-like isn't. Bird-like creatures should mostly be okay, too.

I'll have to dig out my 2e Dark Sun campaign rules to look over my monster lists

 

[Wik]

Yup. Thinking back to 2e, everything cat-like should be fine, too, and everything dog-like isn't. Bird-like creatures should mostly be okay, too.

I'll have to dig out my 2e Dark Sun campaign rules to look over my monster lists

Yeah, you've more or less got it, though if memory serves, most of the cat-like things were dropped in revised rules for some reason. Really, most mammals were dropped in the revised set, but I think the original set mentioned there being "athasian bears" and "athasian wolves" or something like that, with the idea being "take a mammal, lose the fur, and add a carapace".

***

Really, I think any monster can work in Dark Sun, provided it is not a "species" and is instead a "mutation". Monsters that are easily recognizable from other D&D sources (Goblins, Owlbears, Minotaurs, etc) should be dropped unless you don't mind muddying your setting a bit (another reason I dislike Eladrin + Tieflings, as when I think of them, I think of the things they're associated with, too, and those things should not be in my dark sun).

Avoid planar monsters, unless you're willing to refluff. The reasoning for this (in my book) is that "Planar" means "External". And one of the great ideas of Athas is that humanity has done this to itself. It wasn't done because devils corrupted man, or anything silly like that. Everything you see was done to ourselves. Which is a traditional post-apocalyptic theme.

Adding in planar monsters sets up the fact that devils and the like probably had a part to play (and even if they didn't, they'll still be corrupting men, which isn't so good in Dark Sun - humans should be corrupting themselves, without external aid).

Of course, that's all my opinion. Really, I'd just say use the monster lists as a guideline, and in the end there should be absolutely no reason why your campaign can't have mimics, couatls, and owlbears.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

When Dark Sun came out, obviously they couldn't have enough critters to populate it ONLY form the 1st Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium, so it had a seleciton of suitable critters form other sources.

In the "official timeline" which I Ignore and Loathing In New Tyr (tm) , many creatures were wiped out in genocidal wars.
For me it came about cause of the illithids trying to darken the Sun, wars caused by psionics inspiring defiling, ecogolicla destruciton and rmapant mutation, etc

folk cna use whatever ideas they wish, for Athas' past and critter types

Perosnally I think the devils etc are merely shut out since the apocalpyse, along with all other Astral travellers, a few maybe trapped here and there form ancient times, but realizing they are cut off from their home plane, if they get otu all they'd do is return there as their goal because they know death on Athas is a true final death due to no link to the Astral!

Folk if they cna should get a look at the weird critters in the 3 Dark Sun monster compendiums, weird frog-lizard crossbreeds (Dagoran, iirc?) and all kinds of horrors, muhaha.
Re-skinnning works fine, BUT, Dark Sun critters are always nastier/stranger than before.