Dragon 382 - Controllers: Breaking the utility power paradigm

fuzzlewump

First Post
I also enjoy bards.

On another note, I feel like these feats are very obviously bad. I mean, I think I still wouldn't have taken them if they were just extra powers I didn't have to swap out anything for. If they were encounter powers and I didn't have to swap out anything, then I would think about it.
 

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MrMyth

First Post
What WAS said early on was that there should be different silos for combat and non-combat capabilities in the game. So that everyone has a combat role and a non-combat role, and lack of combat ability should not be balanced with superior non-combat ability and vice versa. Frankly, I think that failed as well.

I pretty much entirely disagree. For one thing, I don't think the goal was to give every class identical combat and out-of-combat ability, but to instead ensure that everyone could contribute in both, generally in different ways. I.e., make every class both combat capable and non-combat capable. To that end, the Fighter might have only three trained skills, but that is still enough to pick up a good selection of abilities (Athletics for physical needs, Intimidate for social scenarios, and Heal, for example.) The Rogue might have twice as many skills, but that is a far cry from the last edition - when an Int 8 Fighter might have one relevant skill to the dozen a Rogue could be good at. The Rogue might still have an 'edge' in terms of out-of-combat ability, but hardly one that puts him on a different playing field from the fighter.

And in terms of combat ability, I don't think any class is truly behind. Some can be optimized in different ways, but every class is pretty combat capable, bard included.

As for feats, the key thing is that each feat is a small enough element that you can easily afford to give up +1 damage in order to get a new trained skill. There are a few obnoxiously strong combat feats, like Expertise, that mess with this paradigm - but they are the exception, not the norm.
 

Rechan

Adventurer
*blink*

You're kidding, right? I'm playing a bard in my current game, and while he doesn't have a lot that he can do against multiple foes at once, when focused against a single foe at a time, he's ferociously effective in combat.
Agreed, the Bard kicks major ass. I've seen three in play so far (two of which I've played myself), and they work in combat.

I mean hell, Melee bards can turn the solo monster into an encounter-long pinata of free HP for anyone who hits it.
 

Marshall

First Post
Yours too? Mine routinely out does the strikers and sometimes even plays defender in pinch. Throwing out heals is almost better aggro than a mark.
 



Starfox

Adventurer
As I said, I play the Wis build (which I think sucks), and I still do smashingly.

The Int-based build was just awesome, when I played it.

Interesting to hear - not my experience at all. Here we feel the class/role ranking is basically

Fighter > Striker > Defender > Everyone else.
 


Klaus

First Post
*blink*

You're kidding, right? I'm playing a bard in my current game, and while he doesn't have a lot that he can do against multiple foes at once, when focused against a single foe at a time, he's ferociously effective in combat.
Indeed, the Valorous Bard is a better warlord than the Warlord. Add in a multitude of combat-related multiclass feats and you're gold!

BTW, I statted Aragorn as a Bard, and it fit him perfectly.

Back on-topic: now that we have an article explaining what a controller does, anyone got ways for a martial controller to work?
 

Indeed, the Valorous Bard is a better warlord than the Warlord. Add in a multitude of combat-related multiclass feats and you're gold!

BTW, I statted Aragorn as a Bard, and it fit him perfectly.

Back on-topic: now that we have an article explaining what a controller does, anyone got ways for a martial controller to work?
The challenge remains:
- how to justify area attacks?
- how to manipulate/"control" enemies at range?
Archery and/or high speed might be the right tools, but does it still feel "martial" if you try to make an entire controller class, with zones, effects and all that...
 

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