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Dragon 397 - Table of Contents
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5485830" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Then subscribe when you see that there's content you want. It is pretty easy to go find out what people think of the content for month X, Y, or Z and it isn't like you have to have it right now today site unseen.</p><p></p><p>Just as a general comment when you engage in a business relationship with someone you as a consumer do have some responsibilities. You have a responsibility to decide if the thing you are buying is the thing that you want and if it has the quality you desire. You have the responsibility to shop intelligently. You also have some obligation to make your lack of satisfaction known to the purveyor of the good or service when you feel that you haven't received proper value for your money. Life is always a two way street and there are no rights without obligations.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>I simply think that you are taking a rather unfair stand with WotC. First you assume they are trying to rip you off and not themselves subject to the constraints of the real world where contributors fail to produce material on deadline or whatever other things could happen ONCE that would cause them to fail to provide the one article that they have stated they should have provided. Sure, it is grounds for complaint, I'm not arguing that it isn't. OTOH it isn't like you went to the store and bought a DVD player and got home and found a brick in the box. You subscribed to a service that has some service level. Exactly what that constitutes isn't super easy to define in general either since the service consists of a number of components. Sometimes WotC provides service that is beyond the minimum they've established, and ONCE in 3 years one aspect of it was below par and you found it unacceptable. Heck, they could have NOT published some adventure way back when and held onto it in case they had a problem so they could toss it in. You'd have no grounds to call that a 'rip off' yet you'd have had overall a worse product. This kind of thing you see is not as simple as you make it out to be. Be dissatisfied, exercise your responsibility as a consumer to act on that dissatisfaction, but just realize that it isn't all on them all the time. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p></p><p>No company on Earth in this kind of business has ever, to my knowledge, felt obliged to give people refunds that they didn't ask for. Do you pay them extra money when they give you more than 3 adventures? I seriously doubt it. Do you pay them extra money if they give you a tool they didn't promise you to start with? I doubt it. Lets be real here. You wouldn't give them money for nothing and they aren't going to give you something for no money either. If you want to pay on credit then go to the bank, thats what they're in business for. </p><p></p><p>And again, when you VOLUNTARILY enter into a business relationship with someone you DO assume the responsibility to decide whether or not you're being served in the way you feel you've paid for or not and do something about it if you aren't. You're right that the company has an obligation to provide you with what they promised. It simply isn't always super straightforward to say 'this is the line between what was promised and something lesser.' You have a legitimate reason to complain about not getting enough adventures last month, but you actually do have an obligation to bring that up with them if you're having an issue with it.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, I haven't been accumulating the group membership number on a regular basis, but back when this discussion was had before 2-3 months back the number was around 44k and change. It is 48k and change right now today. Did it go above 48k and drop back down? I don't know. I can only state that the trend at a granularity of something like 12 weeks has been up for as long as people have been paying attention to the number. If anyone has historical numbers it would be interesting to see.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>"I'm afraid you are more comfortable getting taken for a rube than I." A little backhanded, but yeah it was getting a little personal there. Maybe take a step back a bit and look at the tone of the responses I've gotten in this thread. No biggie, but yes it does feel rather personal taken together. I've said my piece and I'll just let it stand, but the discussion would be more productive if it veered in a bit different direction, IMHO. If you think I'm being over sensitive, well OK. I kind of think some people are being overly critical too. Just letting people know. I didn't think it required a mod to come and slap anyone on the hand.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5485830, member: 82106"] Then subscribe when you see that there's content you want. It is pretty easy to go find out what people think of the content for month X, Y, or Z and it isn't like you have to have it right now today site unseen. Just as a general comment when you engage in a business relationship with someone you as a consumer do have some responsibilities. You have a responsibility to decide if the thing you are buying is the thing that you want and if it has the quality you desire. You have the responsibility to shop intelligently. You also have some obligation to make your lack of satisfaction known to the purveyor of the good or service when you feel that you haven't received proper value for your money. Life is always a two way street and there are no rights without obligations. I simply think that you are taking a rather unfair stand with WotC. First you assume they are trying to rip you off and not themselves subject to the constraints of the real world where contributors fail to produce material on deadline or whatever other things could happen ONCE that would cause them to fail to provide the one article that they have stated they should have provided. Sure, it is grounds for complaint, I'm not arguing that it isn't. OTOH it isn't like you went to the store and bought a DVD player and got home and found a brick in the box. You subscribed to a service that has some service level. Exactly what that constitutes isn't super easy to define in general either since the service consists of a number of components. Sometimes WotC provides service that is beyond the minimum they've established, and ONCE in 3 years one aspect of it was below par and you found it unacceptable. Heck, they could have NOT published some adventure way back when and held onto it in case they had a problem so they could toss it in. You'd have no grounds to call that a 'rip off' yet you'd have had overall a worse product. This kind of thing you see is not as simple as you make it out to be. Be dissatisfied, exercise your responsibility as a consumer to act on that dissatisfaction, but just realize that it isn't all on them all the time. No company on Earth in this kind of business has ever, to my knowledge, felt obliged to give people refunds that they didn't ask for. Do you pay them extra money when they give you more than 3 adventures? I seriously doubt it. Do you pay them extra money if they give you a tool they didn't promise you to start with? I doubt it. Lets be real here. You wouldn't give them money for nothing and they aren't going to give you something for no money either. If you want to pay on credit then go to the bank, thats what they're in business for. And again, when you VOLUNTARILY enter into a business relationship with someone you DO assume the responsibility to decide whether or not you're being served in the way you feel you've paid for or not and do something about it if you aren't. You're right that the company has an obligation to provide you with what they promised. It simply isn't always super straightforward to say 'this is the line between what was promised and something lesser.' You have a legitimate reason to complain about not getting enough adventures last month, but you actually do have an obligation to bring that up with them if you're having an issue with it. Well, I haven't been accumulating the group membership number on a regular basis, but back when this discussion was had before 2-3 months back the number was around 44k and change. It is 48k and change right now today. Did it go above 48k and drop back down? I don't know. I can only state that the trend at a granularity of something like 12 weeks has been up for as long as people have been paying attention to the number. If anyone has historical numbers it would be interesting to see. "I'm afraid you are more comfortable getting taken for a rube than I." A little backhanded, but yeah it was getting a little personal there. Maybe take a step back a bit and look at the tone of the responses I've gotten in this thread. No biggie, but yes it does feel rather personal taken together. I've said my piece and I'll just let it stand, but the discussion would be more productive if it veered in a bit different direction, IMHO. If you think I'm being over sensitive, well OK. I kind of think some people are being overly critical too. Just letting people know. I didn't think it required a mod to come and slap anyone on the hand. [/QUOTE]
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