Dragon 400th Issue?

[the Jester]

But really, all of this just sounds like an excuse to whine at WotC, "But it's not a real magazine (whatever that is), I liked it when it was a real magazine!" The only people who have any difficulty with what to call it or even think that's something worth bringing up in the first place are the ones who don't like that Dragon and Dungeon are presented in online, not-compiled-at-the-monthly-level format anyway.

Well, I have no problem celebrating the 35th anniversary of Dragon or whatever, but since I can't buy it on the shelf- in fact, there is no way at all that I can get "Dragon 400" as a single product, even if I am a subscriber- I just can't take it seriously as a magazine any more.

I agree that a new term for what it is is in order; I disagree that it's all a big whine. I don't especially mind the current presentation, except that I can't buy an issue at the store or read it on the toilet, both of which are things I used to do all the time with Dragon and Dungeon.

But I really do think calling it a magazine is akin to calling my Facebook feed a get-together.

 

[IronWolf]

Arguably, then, whatever Dragon + Dungeon are could use a new term to describe them. E-magazine works for me; we have no problem with the word email, and the similarities between it and snail mail are probably on the same scale as the similarities between print magazines and serial online subscription content.

Digital and e-magazine delivery is already out and not really like the current iteration of Dragon magazine. Take a look at Kobold Quarterly or a place like Zinio. Those are digital delivered magazines. Subscriptions to just the magazine in question or pick up on an issue by issue basis if that is your choice.

But really, all of this just sounds like an excuse to whine at WotC, "But it's not a real magazine (whatever that is), I liked it when it was a real magazine!" The only people who have any difficulty with what to call it or even think that's something worth bringing up in the first place are the ones who don't like that Dragon and Dungeon are presented in online, not-compiled-at-the-monthly-level format anyway.

Not really. Online delivery is fine - as several have noted a lot of things are moving this way. There are just better examples of this being done well than what one will see in Dragon "magazine's" release style.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

If you had to buy each chapter separately, or even download each one individually after you bought the book as a whole, I wouldn't call what you are receiving a "book" so much as the pieces of a book which you then must assemble.

They're not selling the magazine's articles separately. That's a silly thing to throw out there.

And yes, they need to get back to reassembling all of the articles into a collection at the end.

But if you tear all the pages out of a book, you still have a book, just one in pieces.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Speaking of Zinio and other digital magazines (or iPad publications like the Daily), it seems like WotC (and the Kobolds and others) are missing out on a bet by not creating an app that automatically brings their PDFs straight into the tablet. The amount of additional work required seems like it'd be more than made up for by the additional revenue generated.

 

[Morrus]

Speaking of Zinio and other digital magazines (or iPad publications like the Daily), it seems like WotC (and the Kobolds and others) are missing out on a bet by not creating an app that automatically brings their PDFs straight into the tablet. The amount of additional work required seems like it'd be more than made up for by the additional revenue generated.

God, I'd love DDI to go iPad. It would go from "check DDI occasionally" to "welcome to my gaming table all the time!"

 

[GreyLord]

God, I'd love DDI to go iPad. It would go from "check DDI occasionally" to "welcome to my gaming table all the time!"

It'd be great if they had something that went not just for the Ipad, but also that would be easy to simply buy from Amazon or another bookseller and go on the Kindle, Nook, or other reading app without having to pay more money for a conversion.

(Edit: That's for the magazines at least...I could see them able to handle something less complex MAYBE for a character builder on some of those, like the IPAD and such as well).

 

[Mournblade94]

But really, all of this just sounds like an excuse to whine at WotC, "But it's not a real magazine (whatever that is), I liked it when it was a real magazine!" The only people who have any difficulty with what to call it or even think that's something worth bringing up in the first place are the ones who don't like that Dragon and Dungeon are presented in online, not-compiled-at-the-monthly-level format anyway.

So how is this a problem? Is it a problem because you LIKE the way it is presented, and therefore all others that dislike it are just wrong?

What you call whining is a misnomer. Most people would call it criticism.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Arguably, then, whatever Dragon + Dungeon are could use a new term to describe them. E-magazine works for me; we have no problem with the word email, and the similarities between it and snail mail are probably on the same scale as the similarities between print magazines and serial online subscription content.

But some of us like books/physical copies. For me Dragon and Dungeon finished when they were taken off of Paizo and turned into online articles (as much as those articles have in the main been pretty good - the quality has dropped in comparison to when they were in print).

But really, all of this just sounds like an excuse to whine at WotC, "But it's not a real magazine (whatever that is), I liked it when it was a real magazine!"

You are most probably right except what you call whining because you disagree with it, others would call criticism - important difference. For me a "real" magazine is one like a book that I can sit on my bookshelf and flick through where ever I happen to be. For me, flicking through a book is much easier than viewing online content. Your mileage obviously varies.

The only people who have any difficulty with what to call it or even think that's something worth bringing up in the first place are the ones who don't like that Dragon and Dungeon are presented in online, not-compiled-at-the-monthly-level format anyway.

Correct. I used to be able to purchase Dragon and Dungeon at the local newsagent as well as the friendly local gaming store. I Can't do that now. Again, I think you need to realise that a good proportion of the gaming community differs in opinion to you. It would be nice if WotC catered for both tastes - but in the name of cost cutting they don't. You're happy because you get what you want how you want. I suppose the rest of us are just "whining" huh?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Dannager]

You are most probably right except what you call whining because you disagree with it, others would call criticism - important difference.

No, criticism (at least, constructive criticism, which is what you ought to be going for) is when you say "I'd prefer it if your articles were [insert desires here]." Whining is when you say "Online Dragon isn't real Dragon," as though you are responsible for defining someone else's property.

For reference:

GOOD: "I'd prefer it if Dragon and Dungeon were available in print format because I like holding it in my hands to read."

BAD: "WotC killed Dragon and Dungeon when they stopped printing the magazines. What they have online now is just a couple of imposters."

Correct. I used to be able to purchase Dragon and Dungeon at the local newsagent as well as the friendly local gaming store. I Can't do that now.

You're right! Instead, it's magically beamed into a shiny box sitting on or near your desk, and you don't even have to leave the house!

But that's not the point. The point I was making is that the people who dislike what Dragon and Dungeon have become are the same people who think that we shouldn't be calling it a magazine. This leads me to conclude that there isn't a problem with calling it an online magazine, because that term is close enough to correct that it can be reasonably used to describe it. Instead, the problem is with people upset with the content and presentation doing everything they can to criticize (or whine about) Dragon and Dungeon, and going so far with this criticism as to put some substantial effort into explaining how it's totally not an online magazine. This is the mother of all nitpicks. No one cares what word you use to describe it.

Again, I think you need to realise that a good proportion of the gaming community differs in opinion to you.

And they can have those opinions. But it's been years, the bitterness hasn't gone anywhere, and the attitude of this portion of the gaming population is insanely disproportionate to the change that was made.

It would be nice if WotC catered for both tastes - but in the name of cost cutting they don't. You're happy because you get what you want how you want.

No. Much of the time, I don't get what I want - including when it comes to WotC and their decisions. But I don't come online to whine about how I didn't get exactly what I want, and express my overflowing bitterness to the internet masses. I am aware that compromises must be made, that I'm not entitled to have every one of my desires catered to, and I am secure in the knowledge that I can make the best out of whatever changes or decisions are made.

I suppose the rest of us are just "whining" huh?

No, not all of the rest. Just some of the rest. A small, vocal some.

 

[IronWolf]

No, criticism (at least, constructive criticism, which is what you ought to be going for) is when you say "I'd prefer it if your articles were [insert desires here]." Whining is when you say "Online Dragon isn't real Dragon," as though you are responsible for defining someone else's property.

I believe some of the posters here have said they would prefer the magazine actually be downloadable in a single combined file. And others have said they would like to be able to buy one off issue or subscribe *just* to Dragon. This sounds like reasonable criticism, albeit criticism that you do not agree with.

The point I was making is that the people who dislike what Dragon and Dungeon have become are the same people who think that we shouldn't be calling it a magazine.

I don't know - some of the posts don't seem to criticize the Dragon articles as much as simply say they don't think they qualify as a magazine.

But I don't come online to whine about how I didn't get exactly what I want, and express my overflowing bitterness to the internet masses.

These are discussion boards. This is the place people come to discuss things about RPGs. There are going to be people here that love how something is done and on the other side be people who do not like something. We then come here to discuss it. Neither side is right or wrong, just of differing opinions. If we all agreed on everything then discussion boards would be a rather uninteresting place.

WotC is not infallible, no publisher is. There is bound to be differing opinions on what any company does.