Dragon as PC

[lancealot501]

I recently got the Draconomicon, and came upon the dragon as PC characters. Thinking that this would be a good idea, I started creating one. The problem I came up with is that they seem week in comparison to other party members. Just an important note, we would be playing a low level campaign (4-14). To test the book out, I created a wyrmling white dragon. Looking up appropriate values in the monster manual, it basic stats would be:

HP:3d12+3 (22) AC:14(+2 size, +2 Natural) STR:11 DEX:10 CON:13 INT:6 WIS:11 CHA:6 BAB:+3 SIZE: Tiny
Attacks: Claws +5 (1d3+1), Bite +5 (1d4+1), Breath 1d6(DC 12)
+dragon traits, 2 feats

According to the Draconomicon, this would make the dragon ECL 5. I decided to see if it wasn't that bad and had it fight my lvl 4 monk without using furry of blows. After trying 5 times the score was Monk 5 Dragon 0. My first impression was that I just had a really good monk, so I had it fight a standard wolf. In our last session (lvl 4 team), every character, could take down a wolf and be better off (except the wizard who got hit before hand). Though the dragon could take down the would, It wasn't in the best of shape to take on another one.

I believe I read the MM and Draconomicon correctly, but does this mean that a dragon would be useless to the team even though he is 1 ECL above everyone, or is it because we are at a low level?

Also I haven't read it all yet but could by dragon use magical items like everyone else from the MIC, or is there a special list for dragon's to use. Also, if I can't then what should I use my gold on (DM will give me 5400 just like everyone else). If worse comes to worse, I'll find a way to use it as a bed at nighttime. Thanks for all those that can help me out.

 

[Derren]

Monster characters are generally weaker than normal PC. This was made intentionally to encourage people to play normal PCs. Spellcasters are especially hard hit by LA.
So in short, don't play a dragon or other monster PC for power, but because it makes an interesting character. You can of course try to talk with the group about lowering the LA by about 2. Sadly I can't provide an quote for the intentional high LA thing.

About magic items, the Draconomicon says that dragons can wear all magic items humans can wear, except armor (they use barding instead. Enchantments are the same). The Draconomicon also has some special items mostly useful for dragons.

You also have the problem that the best way for a dragon to fight, especially a PC one, is in my eyes mobility and long term attrition, something that does not work together well with the "deathmatch" combat style normal PCs have.

 

[Ahnehnois]

ECL/LA is not an exact science. Nor is one on one fighting the mark of a dragon's power (and shouldn't it by flying and using its breath weapon?). Proceed thoughtfully, that's all.

 

[Empirate]

Dragons can fly (fast!) and use breath weapons. Absent decent air cover, your Monk ought to have lost five times out of five. Ditto, and more so, the wolf.

Dragons also qualify for a lot of [monstrous] feats, and a lot of dragon-only feats and prestige classes, which can make them quite strong. Explore some of the options in Draconomicon, Savage Species, and most importantly Dragon Magic, to see what I mean.

Note that your dragon can use equipment: armor/barding most importantly (making it much tougher in a one-on-one, non-flying melee brawl), but also stuff like potions, wands (using Sor/Wiz spells, which are on his "class" list, so to speak), even weapons if you want.


That said, yes, dragon PCs aren't exactly powerhouses. In an E6 campaign (i.e., using standard rules until characters hit 6th level, at which point leveling stops and you gain a feat instead of another level everytime you earn enough XP), your white dragon wyrmling actually makes a decent PC, but at higher levels, flight and breath weapon alone don't compare well to magic items/spells/other class features anymore.

 

[Dark Dragon]

I'm playing now a dragon PC for years in a now epic group. I started with a wyrmling brass dragon who grew up as the years passed, and who is now a juvenile dragon.
My dragon started with racial hit dice only, but between the age categories, he gained levels as a bard (brass dragons are very good at telling stories and getting informations) and as a spellfire channeler.

Don't forget: a dragon does not neccessarily needs to advance by racial hit dice but he can take classes as well until he reaches the next age category! This includes feats and ability increases.

In comparison with the other PCs in the party, my dragon PC is very weak for a CR 24 critter (dragon 10, bard 4, spellfire channeler 6, LA+4): the breath weapon's damage is rather low compared to the fighter and wizard, his few bard spells are more a nice tool than being powerful, and his spellfire power is rather quickly depleted (but admittedly useful in the first few rounds of an encounter).

The strengths of a dragon PC are its wide options for role playing (rather than roll playing).
Plus his movement radius, resistances and immunities, and its breath weapon make him a good "cavalry" and sort of "medevac" if given some potions and wands. That said, increasing the Use Magic Device skill certainly helps to give the dragon a bit more punch by using wands, scrolls, and staffs. Give him good Listen, Spot, Move Silently and Hide, and you have a good scout, both during night and day. Given space to manouever, a dragon can dish out some damage over time with his breath weapon.

Useful Dragon equipment:
- light armor (heavy armor may reduce flying speed or may not allow flying at all, IIRC there was a rule somewhere about flying armored creatures...)
- rings
- amulets et al.
- belts
- bracers
- wands (IIRC, there is a description of a dragon who mastered a technique to use two wands simultaneously)

 

[Dark Dragon]

Dragons can fly (fast!) and use breath weapons. Absent decent air cover, your Monk ought to have lost five times out of five. Ditto, and more so, the wolf.

Dragons also qualify for a lot of [monstrous] feats, and a lot of dragon-only feats and prestige classes, which can make them quite strong. Explore some of the options in Draconomicon, Savage Species, and most importantly Dragon Magic, to see what I mean.

Note that your dragon can use equipment: armor/barding most importantly (making it much tougher in a one-on-one, non-flying melee brawl), but also stuff like potions, wands (using Sor/Wiz spells, which are on his "class" list, so to speak), even weapons if you want.

I am not sure if a list of "class spells" is eligible for dragons that cannot cast spells yet, i.e. where the caster level entry is marked by a "-". I would rule that such a young dragon (like the white wyrmling) is treated as a non-caster, and needs decent ranks in UMD to use a wand with an arcane spell. But that are just my 2 cents...

 

[Derren]

I am not sure if a list of "class spells" is eligible for dragons that cannot cast spells yet, i.e. where the caster level entry is marked by a "-". I would rule that such a young dragon (like the white wyrmling) is treated as a non-caster, and needs decent ranks in UMD to use a wand with an arcane spell. But that are just my 2 cents...

That is actually addressed in the 3E Draconomicon Page 24 (and your interpretation is correct).

 

[Empirate]

Ah, didn't realize that, that's good to know.

 

[qstor]

There were articles in Dragon magazine too for Dragons as a class from Level 1.

Mike

 

[Halivar]

There were articles in Dragon magazine too for Dragons as a class from Level 1.

I tried this out once. At lower levels they are so far behind the curve as to be almost unplayable. The Level Adjustment is simply too high to seriously use a dragon PC in a balanced party. If you remove the Level Adjustment, then they become broken in the other direction.