Dragon Bashing- Why is it en vogue?

[d20Dwarf]

I see a lot of Dragon bashing lately, and it seems to be trending that way even further. Maybe there has been a thread like this before, but I'd like to ask some pointed questions, and offer some of my own answers (game designers spend a lot of time at home alone, so we talk to ourselves ).

What specifically makes you hate Dragon?

Please do not simply say the content is poor or not useful, be specific.

What would you like to see in Dragon?

It seems to me that people are saying an awful lot that the content isn't useful, or doesn't float their boat. What exactly, in the format of articles in a magazine, would float your boat on a monthly basis? Keep in mind the sheer number of articles published each year, that the quality must be good enough for the Official D&D logo, and that it must be broad enough to appeal to XX,000 subscribers (I have no clue of the actual numbers, I know what they were 4 years ago, but nothing since.)

I personally like the Wizards Workshop sections the most, though many of the others are cool. Do you allow new game mechanics and rules bits from Dragon into your game? Would articles every month with new spells, monsters, and settings make you happy? Would Dragon then be nothing but a D&D sourcebook with advertising and comics?

One of the appealing things about writing an article is that you can explore some aspect of the game without having to go into ad nauseum detail about it as you would in a large sourcebook.

Dragon's strength I think is in the diversity of ideas it presents, and in the fact that it gives gamers some common ground. I mean, almost every long-time gamer has fond memories of a specific issue or article that they really had fun with. I know I do, and to me it's just part of the D&D experience.

Anyway, do I use everything from every issue? No. Do I read every article? No. Things like Planescape and planar adventuring don't interest me, so I usually skip such articles. But, I do enjoy the sheer variety of ideas that I find in each issue, and for some reason it just feels right getting that magazine in the mail every month (when they aren't screwing up my subscription, but that's another thread...PLEASE! hehe).

So please give me your idea of the perfect Dragon magazine, what contents it would have each month, and why you think your idea as a whole is better than the current format.

Or just stick your tongue out at me.

 

[Darrin Drader]

There is no :sticking tongue out: emoticon here.

So why do I hate Dragon? Well, I don't. Not at all. I think Jesse Decker, Matt Sernett and Paizo Publishing are being bold and daring with the places they are taking the magazine while continuing to provide useful content to my game. If that's so wrong - providing a monthly dose of useful content - then feel free to bash it so that the only support we get comes out in the form of a hard back every so often.

 

[rounser]

What specifically makes you hate Dragon?

Please do not simply say the content is poor or not useful, be specific.

I don't hate it, but then again, I'm not one of the people complaining about it either. I don't have any need for mountains of crunch, so I don't see any need to get Dragon (Magic of Faerun + FRCS + Core Books is more than enough, IMO)...but most people seem to love crunch, so more power to them.

Monster books are an exception, though - can never have too many quality monsters, IMO...

 

[Terraism]

Well, I can point out what I do like from Dragon, first off. I really enjoy most of the Wizard's Workshop articles. I've always liked the Ecology articles, and I'm glad that they've started showing up again, though I'm starting to think it was a one-time thing, since I haven't seen once since 301. (There could've been one in 303, which I missed. I need to find a copy.) I miss the old style, though, with a story up above and notes on the creature in footnotes. It always made it seem like I was reading a firsthand field journal, or something similar. One of my favorite things about the Dragon Archive Collection is the ability to sit and just read Ecology articles. In a similar vein, I like the "Elminster's Guide" bits, though I might wish that they weren't quite so Faerun specific. They're easy to change, though, so it's not a big deal.

Moving on, there's a bit that I'm missing nowadays. I'd always enjoyed PC Portraits - that's the kinda thing that's really useful to have, and just one nice little touch to have in there. The special character cover sheets they had in issue 301 & 302 were wonderful, and I wish they'd continue the trend - though, even better would be if the put them on slightly heavier cardstock, like the battlemap inserts. (Yes, I realize that they were really a kinda ad for someone's cover sheets, but I liked having 'em in Dragon. Something else to look forward to each month.) Recurring articles are lots of fun, because something that a periodical can do that print products can't is give you something to look forward to. I'm happier with more recurring articles than features, which is the opposite of how it's running now. The prestige class column was such a thing, but one caveat is that I prefered the p-classes that were pretty specific (don't give me a "duelist" p-class. Give me a "duelist of the gray cloak," and tie it into another article in the issue. More fun that way, at it makes it prestigious..)

What I'd love to see, on that topic, is some game content that goes with the fiction in each issue. Someone mentioned once that an article that went alongside the fiction that showed us how to stat the characters in the piece would be nice - it'd be wonderful, in my opinion.

As far as things I don't like.... hmm... I'm not a big fan of the Silicon Sorcery articles, and I barely read the campaign setting issues (Shannara, and Song of Ice & Fire next month.) If they wanted to do something like that, I'd be happier if it was a recurring, several pages per month method, in which they spent a year detailing a setting. It'd give 'em time to do a better job, too.

I think that's about it.

[Edit] Something I wasn't going to mention, because it's been brought up so much, but the artwork & content. I'm not so worried about censoring the content, like in the "Vile" issue, but I'm not a fan of the so-called "cheese" art like the succubi on the current issue, or even the Foglio April issue some time back. [Shrug] Maybe it's 'cause I'm a prude, but I don't like seeing half-naked people when I'm looking at a magazine. Don't like reading it in public in that case, either. (Note - a similar case can be made for extremely bloody artwork, but I don't think I've seen any of that in a long while.)

 

[Eosin the Red]

Dragon does not seem as meaty to me as it did 5 years ago but I haven't started any "I hate Dragon" threads either.


I will make a comment on something I have noticed - Dragon staff have respond in a terse and dismissive manner to complaints that, at least to me, seemed valid. Maybe they were tired of answering the same question 3,000 times? I don't know but their public replies have left me nonplused. I don't generally write complaints. I would not enjoy recieving some of the tirades that I have seen but I am not a spokesman for publisher.

Does not stop me from buying but right now there is not much that keeps me buying.

I do get some really good stuff from the magazine.

 

[Iron_Chef]

What I want from Dragon is crunchy bits (spells, monsters, PrCs, alt. core classes, magic items, NPCs, monsters, rules and variant rules, etc.) and gorgeous color pull out maps to scale with miniature combat. I want support material for new and existing WoTC products. I want monster ecology/society articles. I want less reader mail, no silicon sorcery, no up on a soapbox (sorry Gary, you are boring me to tears every month), no fiction and less comics!

I got a subscription after buying #275 but let it lapse because too many issues were mostly or completely useless to me (#276, 281, 282 (worst ever), 284, 285, 286, 291 (next worst ever), 292, 2001 annual (terrible mish-mash of junk from WoTC other companies with few exceptions).

Here are the issues I found enough useful content in to not feel too bad about buying or that I enjoyed immensely: #275 (great), 278, 280 (great), 283, 288, 289, 294, 295 (great), 305, Dragon 2000 annual (best annual ever!).

You can see that Dragon only makes me happy about 50% of the time and very unhapy the rest of the time, often for consecutive issues!

Here are my comments on a bunch of recent issues I bought:
______________________________

Issue #295:

The Stronghold Builder's Guidebook support issue. This is a great issue. It totaly expands on the material in SHBGB and provides beautiful color maps of and details on several example strongholds built with the rules. LGJ features a new demon and vicious etherereal air elementals, the gingwatzim. Fabulous!
_______________________________

Issue #296:

This issue was next to useless except for the article on designing guilds, cults and organizations and made me not want to buy any more issues ever again... In fact, I didn't even bother to check out anything between #297-303 until I picked up the BoVD and wanted issue #300 (until I opened up the sealed section).
________________________________

Issue #300:

Supposed to be in support of the Book of the Vile Darkness. What do we get? An article on fiendish dragons. Not vile. Drow NPCs: not vile. Wastri the Hopping Prophet: Not vile. The sealed section contains Monster Cultist PrCs: Not vile, except for possibly one brief reference to "raping and pillaging" in the kuo-toan Shoal Dweller PrC. The Skinscriber spells are vile enough, I guess, but too few. The other major article in the issue is a retrospective on the history of the magazine: expected but boring. The issue fails to provide anything "vile" except a couple pages of spells like "wall of maggots." The issue is pretty much a total failure, IMO. It doesn't entertain, it doesn't provide enough new crunchy bits, and it doesn't fulfil its obligation to suport the BoVD in any meaningful way. $6 down the toilet, basically, except I may use wall of maggots if my PC can ever cast high level spells, LOL.
______________________________

Issue #304:

The "Gladiator" issue. The gladiator games ideas weren't very innovative. I liked the new gladiator weapons, especially the hydra flail (like Yeenoghu's trademark weapon). The Gladiator PrCs were not cool. The rest of the issue wasn't useful to me. I bought it for the pull-out gladiator arena map and the new weapons. The rest is useless to me.
_______________________________

Issue #305:

The "Urban" issue. Well, I bought it for two things: the beautiful color pull out map of a city street and sewer section, and the excellent article on the yuan-ti. The rest of it was just a yuan (yawn!). Great cover, though.
_______________________________

Dragon needs more crunchy bits and less fluff. A monthly mini-splatbook would be great. I want new rules, new spells, monsters and treasure, and NPCs. And beautiful pull out maps. Everything else is really useless to me, especially the fiction. If I wanted fiction, I'd buy a novel. I buy Dragon for crunch only.

It makes perfect sense to me that so many people are complaining about Dragon's usefulness. Because it isn't very useful most of the time.

 

[Dagger75]

I am not one of those Dragon bashers either. I might not use everything published in the magazine but I buy every single one like a good little gamer

I would like to add these points lately with Dragon

1- I see that magazine in every bookstore around town now, not just in the game stores. Since the game store near my house closed, and with my new funny schedule I hardly get to the one in the next town.

2- I can't off the top of my head think of any other magazine (or any other other hobby for that matter) that has the editor, writters, publishers respond to its readers so timely and listen to our critisims. I think its great Pazio takes the time to respond to us when we have questions and concerns.

3- They got a George RR Martin story in there magazine and a whole issue devoted to it in May. I like him and am glad for this issue.

Thats all I got for now.

Keep up the good work with Dragon and Dungeon

 

[Gez]

There is no :sticking tongue out: emoticon here.

You mean, like that:

 

[Buttercup]

I'm not a Dragon Basher either, and I notice that none of them have yet posted in this thread. So I'm not sure how useful all of our opinions are to you, d20Dwarf. But however useless it might be, here's mine:

I am not fond of the recent cover art, since the whole chain mail bikini school of art seems purile to me. This isn't the place to get into a political discussion about it, and i'm not trying to. So let me simply state that when half naked women are used to sell anything, be it a magazine, a d20 supplement or a car, it pisses me off. It says to me, loud and clear, that these folks think I'm an object, nothing more, and they aren't interested in my business. Now, Dragon doesn't always feature this sort of cover art. But if they want to attract more female subscribers, I think they'd be wise to never use it. But maybe they attract far more male gamers with art like that than the number of female gamers they repel. In which case it's a simple business decision, and the same one I'd make were I at the helm. Doesn't mean I like it, but I understand it.

Some of the content is useful to me, and some of it isn't. That doesn't bother me, since IMO it would be surprising if I could make use of 100% of the content of any d20 product. I mean, since I don't use elves in my campaigns, I can't even use 100% of the PHB! So?

But since we're talking about our personal likes and dislikes here, I have no use for the fiction nor the Silicon Sorcery section. If I want info about computer games, I'll visit Gamespot, to which I subscribe. I read Dragon for it's relevance to my RPGs, not my CRPGs. But I love the inserts! Love 'em! The current one, which is a battle map of a section of town, just rocks. It's tucked into my DM binder just waiting for my players to stumble into an ambush by local thugs.

I generally like any article Monte Cook writes, and this month is no exception. Urban traps is useful to me also.

So in conclusion, Dragon is more useful to me than not. As long as that's true, I'll continue to subscribe.

 

[mythusmage]

Because dragons pay real good to have you bash 'em.

Dragon: That's the spot. That's the spot! THATS' THE SPOT! Yes! Yes! Lay on, McDuff! Oh, that feels so good.

Hey, why spend all that money on skin care lotion when a paladin with a strength of 22 is so much cheaper?