D&D 4E Dragon Mountain (4e conversion - complete!)

[Manbearcat]

Regarding 1:

If you want something unique, I was always fascinated by the prospect of the dwarves having truly functional tech for their mining and building. They could have created "golem-like-machinery" for excavation and edifice construction. Perhaps their Runepriests found a way to bind Earth Elementals to front-end loaders or boaring machinery or other harvesting devices (perhaps "golem suits" like the mechanical one that Ripley used in Alien/s). You could have a few kobold clans who have mastered this "golem tech" and use them as sentinels or pilot them themselves during combat encounters.

 

[Quickleaf]

Regarding 1:

If you want something unique, I was always fascinated by the prospect of the dwarves having truly functional tech for their mining and building. They could have created "golem-like-machinery" for excavation and edifice construction. Perhaps their Runepriests found a way to bind Earth Elementals to front-end loaders or boaring machinery or other harvesting devices (perhaps "golem suits" like the mechanical one that Ripley used in Alien/s). You could have a few kobold clans who have mastered this "golem tech" and use them as sentinels or pilot them themselves during combat encounters.

That's funny, I was thinking the same thing while reading thru Paizo's Classic Monsters Revisited which mentions kobolds as skilled with clock works, constructs, and bells. Maybe some kind of "Master Trapper" kobold in a golem suit (or perhaps a golem control rod?) with lots of devious traps could make for a great set piece encounter....PCs beating him might learn a lot about the various kobold traps and countermeasures.

On the topic of new content, I was also considering adding two new areas:
* An arena pit where kobolds pit captives against trained monsters.
* A chamber of enormous dwarven bells (once used for ceremonies and warning of attacks) with hidden kobolds banging the bells really hard to disorient/damage the PCs.

 

[Quickleaf]

I think paragon level PCs would be fairly familiar with kobold tactics. In other words I don't see a problem there. Arrow slits are still devastating. (How much effort does it take to get through/around that wall?)

There's no problem, I'm just looking for ways to make the scenario fun, fresh, and challenging for a very experienced player is all. Here's a quote from the original Tucker's Kobolds, emphasis mine:

Tucker's kobolds were the worst things we could imagine. They ate all our donkeys and took our treasure and did everything they could to make us miserable, but they had style and brains and tenacity and courage. We respected them and loved them, sort of, because they were never boring.

For the kidnap encounter, I would recommend a level +4 (or more) encounter, where the kobolds try to use "nonlethal" controlling attacks. Lots of kobold sorcerers dishing out sleep-equivalent spells, etc. If the PCs fail, someone is likely to get kidnapped. And if the PCs succeed, they still lost resources.

So how would you rule the kidnapping? If, during the combat, the kobolds manage to drag a disabled PC off the battle map?

I'd drop the splitting the party one. Paragon-level PCs could easily reunite using their own character resources, even if that means someone has to spend a few minutes preparing Sending. (Also, if only half the party gets into combat, half the party will probably be bored. Worse if you don't give XP to PCs who "skip" fights.)

The idea is that there would be two concurrent fights/challenges. The separated PC would face one, and the rest of the party would face one.

Hmm...maybe you're right that it isn't suitable for practical reasons and also cause its more of a low-level challenge...What could I replace it with?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

So how would you rule the kidnapping? If, during the combat, the kobolds manage to drag a disabled PC off the battle map?

Even if they did that, the PCs would likely bust their behinds to rescue them.

I guess the real issue is, why kidnap? It's harder than killing. The kobolds need a motivation for that.

Making a "divided encounter" solves the balance problem, but I still think it's too hard to come up with a way of plausibly separating PCs. Even illusions might not work. Although randomly-targeted teleport pads hidden under certain flagstones could work.

 

[Quickleaf]

Even if they did that, the PCs would likely bust their behinds to rescue them.

I guess the real issue is, why kidnap? It's harder than killing. The kobolds need a motivation for that.

According to the module, it's to learn about the forces of the PC party and to acquire any magic items (and their command words) the kidnap victim might have. It's also implied the kobolds like to torment bigger folk rather than just kill them outright. Another possibility is a kobold clan wants the PC to help them fight against a rival clan, and figure negotiating with the PC hostage is a better bet.

Making a "divided encounter" solves the balance problem, but I still think it's too hard to come up with a way of plausibly separating PCs. Even illusions might not work. Although randomly-targeted teleport pads hidden under certain flagstones could work.

I think you're right. To be honest, I've never seen a DM's attempt to split the party work. IME the only time a party splits is when players choose to.

Which is unfortunate, because it would fit the theme of the module so well.

 

[pemerton]

The idea is that there would be two concurrent fights/challenges. The separated PC would face one, and the rest of the party would face one.

I did this in a recent session:

* Two PCs were in a skill challenge negotiation with a duergar overlord;

* One PC was fighting an arena-trained ogre in the duergar fighting pit;

* One PC was free roleplaying through a secret mission from a mysterious patron who made telepathic contact, with a skill challenge at the end to avoid detection.​

I wouldn't say it was hopeless, but it didn't work seamlessly either. The 1-on-1 combat was a little bland, and I didn't really succeed in interweaving the stakes and implications of the various conflicts as much as I had hoped to.

So I'm not saying "don't do it", but I would suggest thinking it through, and planning out some posssible interweavings, if you are going to do it.

 

[pemerton]

To be honest, I've never seen a DM's attempt to split the party work.

<snip>

Which is unfortunate, because it would fit the theme of the module so well.

In that case, I would try the skill challenge approach.

The closest I came to doing this was when the party were around 10th level, and negotiating with some hags in the hags' ruined manorhouse.

On a failed check (Diplomacy?) from the player of the dwarf PC, I RPed the Pact Hags reply, and then told the player of the dwarf that (as the hag replied) he moved without even thinking about it to a different spot in the room. (This was to model her domination/influence abilities.) Then, after another failed check by someone (maybe the same player?) the hag pulled on a hidden cord and dropped the dwarf down into the spider pits.

The separation of the PCs didn't last very long, as the other PCs came down to help fight the spiders, but I found that it went across at the table OK as long as I was very clear, at the metagame level, what was going on. In your case, this would be (i) making it clear that the splitting of the party is the consequence of a particular failure in a skill challenge, and (ii) making it clear that, as a GM, you have factored this into your encounter design and resolution, so it is not just an arbitrary dick move by you, but a reasonable challenge that the players can address by deploying their mechanical and intellectual resources.

 

[Manbearcat]

To be honest, I've never seen a DM's attempt to split the party work. IME the only time a party splits is when players choose to.

Which is unfortunate, because it would fit the theme of the module so well.

In that case, I would try the skill challenge approach.

<snip>

I found that it went across at the table OK as long as I was very clear, at the metagame level, what was going on. In your case, this would be (i) making it clear that the splitting of the party is the consequence of a particular failure in a skill challenge, and (ii) making it clear that, as a GM, you have factored this into your encounter design and resolution, so it is not just an arbitrary dick move by you, but a reasonable challenge that the players can address by deploying their mechanical and intellectual resources.

I think you can pull it off Quickleaf and I think pemerton's advice is spot on. I don't know your table dynamics and your player's malleability at the meta-game level so I can't say for sure it would work but I don't think it would hurt to give it a try.

At my table, I run all manner of Exploration Skill Challenges and I've run something very similar to what you're attempting to pull off. This is the pathway I did to mechanical resolution:

- Skill Challenge to get somewhere (in your case it could be getting from one micro-locale to the next...Kobold lair or ruin, etc).
- Failure meant that one of the PCs got separated due to some narrative conflict/adversity. I only have 3 PCs so if you have 4-5, you could do 2 if you'd like. I just rolled 1d3 to determine which PC was separated. Have you ever seen the movie The Descent? It was modeling that. It was spelunking in a pitch black, cramped cave complex. The PC that got separated was the victim of a cave-in (that shut him off from the other 2) coupled with the floor giving way on his side into a natural underground river (and he lost 2 surges). The current brought him to rest in the den/ossuary of creatures (modified Chokers). These guys weren't into taking prisoners. They were into eating you alive. There was no light source so he couldn't see but he could hear them. And he knew that they could likely see in the dark or had blindsense, etc. He stayed put for a long time until he didn't hear anymore.

I won't bore you with all the details but to make a long story short, the other PCs engaged in a Skill Challenge to find him. When they were two successes from locating the den/ossuary (and the separated PC), I narrated it as him hearing them from a level above him. He took the opportunity to use a tendertwig and throw it across the way, revealing the macabre lair...and the 3 modified Chokers guarding the young (only one of which he saw). Life or death battle commenced and the sound provided the PCs a + 2 in their efforts to locate him. 3 rounds latter, the other 2 PCs had succeeded and they won the day.

You could use that same formula but just narrate the separation as falling down a natural chimney, a kobold pit trap that immediately closes itself off, or any other number of options.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

[MENTION=1165](Psi)SeveredHead[/MENTION] Sounds good to me.


I've got two dilemmas that I'm thinking about.

1.

The first dilemma is that one of my players is familiar with Tucker's kobolds and their typical strategies (arrow slits, murder holes, oil and fire, etc). In addition to those time-honored kobold traditions, what fresh new devious kobold strategies can I throw at the party which might surprise my old school player?

2.

The second is a skill challenge design dilemma. I have set up some of the exploration of Dragon Mountain as a skill challenge (page 5/6 of the PDF). Failures in this skill challenge have dire consequences determined by a d12 roll, ranging from having magic items stolen to the party getting split up. Right now I have it so that if a 12 is rolled, one of the PCs is abducted by kobolds, interrogated, stripped of their possessions, and sent to wander the mountain naked. Obviously, that could be a sticking point for some of players (and some of MY players in particular), because I'm not giving the player a chance to save him or herself and because no combat took place.

I want to be respectful of my players' versilimitude needs here, but I also am trying to capture the original spirit of Dragon Mountain which lists this exact abduction situation as one of the kobolds strategies. Thing is, in regular combat achieving a single PC abduction is almost impossible...

How would you resolve my dilemma?

Consider how this would happen in real life. Even the most disciplined team of adventurers isn't perfect. People have to relieve themselves, someone gets thirsty and fishes in their backpack while another PC notices something odd looking up ahead and the rest of the party keeps moving to investigate, etc. All of a sudden a bunch of kobolds jump the straggler and bag him. You simply CANNOT be on your toes every second and you can't simply spend every second of your day drawn up in marching formation. Eventually someone screws up. You just have to imagine how it would go down in reality and narrate that.

 

[Quickleaf]

Consider how this would happen in real life. Even the most disciplined team of adventurers isn't perfect. People have to relieve themselves, someone gets thirsty and fishes in their backpack while another PC notices something odd looking up ahead and the rest of the party keeps moving to investigate, etc. All of a sudden a bunch of kobolds jump the straggler and bag him. You simply CANNOT be on your toes every second and you can't simply spend every second of your day drawn up in marching formation. Eventually someone screws up. You just have to imagine how it would go down in reality and narrate that.

As DM I totally get that. Selling it to the players is another story.