D&D 4E Dragon Mountain (4e conversion - complete!)

[pemerton]

[MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION], I like your ideas a few posts up on how to adjudicate the "100 eyes" hazard.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] You mean using the "horizon" concept?

I think this quote suns up the idea nicely:

The Horizon is a bit more complex than Menace, but not by much. Instead of accumulating action points, extended rests and other actions accumulate points that advance along a track. Reaching the track’s end unlocks an significant story event. The mummy finally rises from it’s tomb; the ritual completes summoning the Starborn; the monster tracking you has finally caught up with you.

You can approach the Horizon as a way to unlock a bonus encounter –players might decide they want to fight it and take a bunch of extended rests in a row — or you can use it as pressure. Knowing that the fate of the town depends on them should motivate characters to push ahead instead of rest.

I might model the "kobold surveillance" aspect of "weight of hundred eyes" using a horizon. So if a fight with kobolds lasts too long (say 5+ rounds), then the horizon increases by one. If a PC or hireling is abducted and questioned, if their maps/plans are stolen, or if they manage to get an extended rest in the mountain, horizon also increases.

*What* that horizon would be is another matter entirely. Maybe a really hard encounter with the kobold commando strike force? Maybe mountain-wide defenses / adapting to PCs? Maybe the dragon casts a ritual or takes other offensive action?

 

[Manbearcat]

From an extra-encounter standpoint, what are you trying to accomplish with Weight of a Hundred Eyes?

If you want to make it a straight reconnaissance bonus for the enemies, then just up the number of Kobold Commando encounter ratio as a function of your Kobold Encounter table (remove some of the more benign encounters and add the Commando encounters). Alternatively, you can make a Kobold Commando encounter almost a given while the PCs are attempting an extended rest. Further, you can up the level of such encounters by + 1 or + 2.

Or

If you want it to rattle the PCs and give the commandos ambush advantage by proxy, you can setup an a either a "Paranoia" Curse/Condition. PCs who are successfully hit by the Attack vs Will of the trap are afflicted as follows:

Stage 0: The target recovers Weight of a Hundred Eyes.
Stage 1: While affected by stage 1, the target takes a -2 penalty to Insight checks and Perception checks.
Stage 2: While affected by stage 2, the target takes a -5 penalty to knowledge checks, monster knowledge checks, Insight checks, and Perception checks.
Stage 3: While affected by stage 3, the effects of Stage 1 and 2 are permanent while in Dragon Mountain.
Check: At the end of each extended rest, the target makes a Charisma (of level Average or Difficult DC at your discretion) check if it is at stage 1 or 2. ** Optional ** If the character has Endurance as a trained Skill, add a + 5 bonus to this check.
Lower than Easy DC: The stage of the condition increases by one.
Easy DC: No Change
Moderate DC: The stage of the condition decreases by one.

 

[Manbearcat]

As an addendum to the above, if you go with the 1st option, you are either going to need to;

1 - Determine a mechanic for the PCs to shunt off the extra-encounter effects of Weight of a Hundred Eyes - A Skill Challenge or a Ritual.
2a - Expressly convey the mechanical impact via meta-game explication (which it seems your table has an aversion to).
2b - Connect the dots via a great job of relating the color of the effect to its mechanical impact without invoking the meta-game.


Given the above, I think option 2 (the curse/condition) has less overhead and given that its a player-side effect, it has much more clearly delineated mechanical impact and means of resolution.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION]
There are a couple things I'm trying to accomplish with "weight of hundred eyes":

1) A feeling of suspense in the players

2) Showcase that the kobolds are studying the PCs, adapting to their tactics, and exploiting their weaknesses

3) Provide an extra layer/objective to some combats - driving off the myriad peering kobolds in the darkness

4) Reward players who use creative counter-surveillance against the kobolds

Of course, I can do some of this by improvising. But I also believe that having pre-written rules material can help, rather than hinder, improvisation.


EDIT: I agree with you about putting the commandos on the Encounter Table, and possibly tweaking the die values they show up on according to the progress of "weight of hundred eyes."

 

[Quickleaf]

As an addendum to the above, if you go with the 1st option, you are either going to need to;

1 - Determine a mechanic for the PCs to shunt off the extra-encounter effects of Weight of a Hundred Eyes - A Skill Challenge or a Ritual.
2a - Expressly convey the mechanical impact via meta-game explication (which it seems your table has an aversion to).
2b - Connect the dots via a great job of relating the color of the effect to its mechanical impact without invoking the meta-game.

On your 1a, the original module only gave the Strike Force something like 55 kobolds, so if I go by that, eventually the PCs can eliminate the commandos altogether. So if the "eyes" only affect the next encounter, no skill challenge or ritual would be needed. However, if the "eyes" have mountain-wide lingering effects (which I think is more interesting), then some ways to undo them are needed. If I use a number track for a "horizon" then there should be actions the PCs can take to reduce their place on that number track. For example:

* Take out the Dragonstrike Force commandos (reduce horizon track by -1)
* Set up traps of their own (reduce horizon track by -1)
* Cast a ritual of obscuring or seeming (reduce horizon track by -1 or more)
* Flood the Animal Husbandry with sunlight and manipulate that light with mirrors to other areas (reduce horizon track by -1)

Rally, it depends *what* the event horizon would be.

Given the above, I think option 2 (the curse/condition) has less overhead and given that its a player-side effect, it has much more clearly delineated mechanical impact and means of resolution.

My hesitation in making it a curse/condition is two-fold. First, it doesnt take into account the kobold surveillance and adaptation (whihc i realize its not intended to). Second, a character could have the "paranoid" condition without the player having buy-in (either themself feeling a bit paranoid or being game to roleplay being paranoid). Let me explain...

For a lot of player unfamiliar with Tucker's Kobolds, the idea that kobolds could be a threat when you're 11th level is ridiculous. You laugh at kobolds at that level. Now that attitude could come up with any variety of mechanics I use, but it would feel like a "cheap shot" if I tell a player who feels this way: "Your character is feeling paranoid from the relentless kobold eyes peering at you." OTOH, if the player can connect the dots between unwise/cocky actions they take and a nasty encounter later, that is giving them a direct experience that might make them a bit paranoid (or not, it's their character so it's up to them). But if there is some looming horizons, the player will definitely feel suspense. Very little buy-in is needed to create the suspense using a horizon.

 

[Manbearcat]

Hmmmm...this is completely an aside and has nothing to do with your efforts (of which are excellent and admirable) here. Just some clarity to the conversation. I believe there is a disconnect here with me that is common amongst the table dynamics you are depicting.

I don't like DM force or player belligerence (force) outside of the scope of mechanical resolution. This is well understood at my table. It is anathema to our playstyle and sows dysfunction now and it permeates the future as well. A player decides how he wants to play his PC but this autonomy is inexorably married to, and limited by, the PC build rules and mechanical resolution. If a curse or an effect (domination, hold, sickness, etc) interfaces with these PC build rules, and that interface dictates that absolute autonomy of PC authorship of its respective fiction is perturbed, then the player is obliged (by the rules of the game and the Social Contract at the table) to comply. If not, then what is the point of the rules and the social contract (which are the primary dictators of a role-playing game)? If something (supernatural or mundane), (i) attacks your "absolute autonomy of PC rendering", (ii) and does so within the rules, (iii) and there is mechanical resolution to undo this, then there is no infringement up "PC agency". The rules have fairly and dispassionately spoken...they say you are paranoid...your Will and Charisma have wavered and you suffer these effects...but you can reassert your absolute autonomy by these means of mechanical resolution (successful Charisma checks * buffed by Endurance). If you choose to be a bad sport (and I unmovingly call it being a bad sport to not comply) then that is on you for sowing that belligerent dysfunction and rendering the color of the game incoherent. Nonetheless, the mechanics still stand. Paranoid/cursed/diseased, etc equals this effect upon you and you have these means to undo it.

Beyond that, we may be talking about the Martial/Supernatural divide. Does your table have an issue with mundane effects upon another creatures will or well being ("Warlords shouting wounds closed" or CaGI)? This seems to be a common source of discord amongst 4e detractors and some folks playing 4e (and liking it) even have this issue. The appeal to, and leveraging of, the metagame aspects of the system are "jarring" to them as they expect to stay in 1st person author-stance as PCs and are averse to any reference to the curtain or the man behind it (2e proliferated this table dogma).

If you need to, you could just color/fluff it as "you can feel the weight of a powerful force, perhaps the dragon...perhaps the mountain itself, observing your every move, every breath, and planning...plotting your demise." Supernatural. Would they be more inclined to accept the infringement upon their absolute autonomy at that point?

That is just a bit of curiosity for me.

Regardless, I'm sure you will do right by your table and its attendant dynamics/philosophy.

 

[Quickleaf]

Beyond that, we may be talking about the Martial/Supernatural divide. Does your table have an issue with mundane effects upon another creatures will or well being ("Warlords shouting wounds closed" or CaGI)?

We don't have a problem with "shouting wounds closed" because I know how to narrate wounding in 4e. There were some jokes, but once I got it, they quickly subsided.

No, the quandry I have is two-fold:

First, that a forced "paranoia" curse from the dragon cheapens the genuine paranoia the players could feel from ongoing struggles with the kobolds. Does that make sense?

Second, that mass magical "paranoia" would not make sense to come from kobolds themselves, but would have to originate from a higher power - Kurtulmak (kobold deity) or Infyrana (the dragon). While those divine/arcane currents are in the a few parts of the original adventure, I don't want to give them an overwhelming presence...it changes the feel of the kobolds if they've got High Magic (of whatever source) backing them in encounters, doesn't it?

I don't have the answer But it's something I'm wondering about.

If you need to, you could just color/fluff it as "you can feel the weight of a powerful force, perhaps the dragon...perhaps the mountain itself, observing your every move, every breath, and planning...plotting your demise." Supernatural. Would they be more inclined to accept the infringement upon their absolute autonomy at that point?

That said...this is totally what I'm going for!! And it makes sense since the dragon Infyrana is a high-level diviner.

Hmm. Does this divorce the supernatural from the strategic adaptation of the kobolds? So there'd be the curse (or whatever we're calling it), and then there'd be strategies left up to the DM to improv (using the considerable resources in the converted module)?

 

[pemerton]

[MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] You mean using the "horizon" concept?

Sorry, no, I didn't really follow the links on that. I meant the mechanical aspects you mentioned - some penalties now, some buffs to the kobolds on future attacks, and your idea about how to communicate this to the players so that they can take steps about the "100 eyes" in future.

As to the stuff you and [MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] have been discussing in the last few posts - I've only skimmed it, but you could use a Fear keyword on the "100 eyes" debuffs, and/or psychic damage, to help bridge the gap between mechanics, martial/supernatural, and player autonomy over the PCs.

 

[Manbearcat]

As to the stuff you and @Manbearcat have been discussing in the last few posts - I've only skimmed it, but you could use a Fear keyword on the "100 eyes" debuffs, and/or psychic damage, to help bridge the gap between mechanics, martial/supernatural, and player autonomy over the PCs.

That's actually a great idea but given that the trap conveys no damage, you would probably want to have the debuff afflict those that have been hit by the Will attack with Vulnerability 5 Psychic/Fear. This would allow an explicit bridge to the concrete implications of the "Paranoia" or "Fear" effects without afflicting them with a Condition and its accompanying Track. You could then use the buff portion to provide the Kobold Commandos with the Fear/Psychic keywords for their M/RBAs during the encounter.

This, of course, only works if you're wanting to go the route that Infyrana/"The Mountain" (as in the color's depiction) is performing reconnaissance at all times through The Weight of a Hundred Eyes (basically a scrying/enchantment trap) and infusing the Kobold Commandos with her knowledge and awful specter (the fear/psychic effects).

If you want the strategic adaptation of the kobolds to be Infyrana-neutral then this would not be the route to go. The questions would then become:

- Who created the trap and, through that creation, how precisely does it function?

If the answer is "this particular kobold clan" or "all kobolds" then:

- How precisely does it work as a conduit for the kobolds strategic adaptation and through what means (divination, telepathy/prescience)?

- If it is mundane, rather than supernatural, how exactly is all of this pulled off?

If it is Infyrana-neutral, if it is mundane and therefore basically like a Halloween Haunted House, then you're probably best just giving the PCs some sort of Combat Advantage debuff and giving the Kobolds Commandos n bonus to damage with Combat Advantage. However, just like in a well done Halloween Haunted House, the PCs may know that the the trap is not malignant with supernatural vigor...but a corner is still a foreboding omen of ill portent as something is likely to be popping out at you! Unfortunately, that still would still not give you any pervasive "paranoia" element which permeates beyond the encounter when the PCs have found a cozy location for an extended rest (which will pretty much always be unmarried geographically to The Weight of a Hundred Eyes). You need a mechanical effect to enforce it outside of the encounter. The PCs may be attacked by the Kobold Commandos during an extended rest, but how will they associate that with The Weight of a Hundred Eyes?