Dragon Tactics - How smart and original can you be?
- Thread starter Ghostwind
- Start date
Mercule
Adventurer
Ghostwind said:A red dragon lives inside a volcano. The party must traverse an open cavern filled with lava by means of 5ft. stepping stones that only allow enough room for each party member to go in single file. Besides the obvious Balance checks that have to be employed, the dragon waits in the magma for the last character to pass and then catches him by surprise from behind only to vanish in the magma again. Assuming the party members fail their Spot checks, they will believe the character fell into the magma. And so it goes on from there.
Similar setup. Dragon lairs inside active volcano. Skip over guards, etc. His actual lair is beyond some magma, but he has a huge (couple of football fields) antechamber that serves as his hall. He has Stone Shape on his spell list and has formed some of the details of his hall himself, including the web of catwalks that allow his servants to bring him tribute, etc.
He also has a ring of Freedom of Movement, which allows him to fly through the magma (liquid, like water -- or pudding) unimpeded. Standard tactics involve turning invisible, snatching intruders, flying deep into the magma and letting them go. Even if they are immune to fire (as was the trollish half-gold dragon PC), they're in big danger of drowning. Making an initial pass with his quickened breath weapon is also a good way to size up who to flame later.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
One tactic that I've had which worked very well for another DM:
Dragon with improved disarm. Doesn't have any problem winning the opposed disarm check and swallows the weapon or otherwise puts it out of reach.
Another tactic which works very well - grapple and pull a single foe into an environment which is fine for you but deadly for others (green or black pull them underwater, red pull them under magma).
I've had a young adult red dragon fight from within a wall of fire; he can fight out with impunity, but everyone attacking him has to reach through the wall of fire to do so.
The biggest problem that any old, powerful, intelligent dragon has is the ability of its foes to neutralise its breath weapon and attack its vulnerabilities. Personally once dragons get an Int of 18+ I start making sure that they are giving due consideration to alternative tactics if facing foes that they can't defeat with one of their standard tactics (for instance, even with no adventurers of sufficient level, the dragon will have given thought to how to handle giants which are physically powerful and also immune to its breath weapon)
Regarding Endur's CR13 dragon. I doubt it could take *any* 20th level PC class in a 1-on-1 fight, assuming that the PC has his normal equipment and is taking any normal precautions (not specific anti-dragon precautions). But that is the *point* of CR, isn't it?
Cheers
Dragon with improved disarm. Doesn't have any problem winning the opposed disarm check and swallows the weapon or otherwise puts it out of reach.
Another tactic which works very well - grapple and pull a single foe into an environment which is fine for you but deadly for others (green or black pull them underwater, red pull them under magma).
I've had a young adult red dragon fight from within a wall of fire; he can fight out with impunity, but everyone attacking him has to reach through the wall of fire to do so.
The biggest problem that any old, powerful, intelligent dragon has is the ability of its foes to neutralise its breath weapon and attack its vulnerabilities. Personally once dragons get an Int of 18+ I start making sure that they are giving due consideration to alternative tactics if facing foes that they can't defeat with one of their standard tactics (for instance, even with no adventurers of sufficient level, the dragon will have given thought to how to handle giants which are physically powerful and also immune to its breath weapon)
Regarding Endur's CR13 dragon. I doubt it could take *any* 20th level PC class in a 1-on-1 fight, assuming that the PC has his normal equipment and is taking any normal precautions (not specific anti-dragon precautions). But that is the *point* of CR, isn't it?
Cheers
Ghostwind
First Post
There are three books out there that give GMs all the tools they will ever need to make PCs utterly fear dragons.
Draconomicon (Wizards of the Coast)
Draconic Lore (Fantasy Flight Games)
Monster's Handbook (Fantasy Flight Games)
I believe Monster's Handbook has a feat that allows a dragon to change his breath weapon. I used this tactic on my epic level players when they faced an undead red dragon. What threw them off was the fact that the dragon's scales were jet black (they buffed themselves against a red's breath weapon) and with his changed and maximized breath weapon, a bolt of lightning laid the smack down on them hard. They did survive but it was something to watch.
Draconomicon (Wizards of the Coast)
Draconic Lore (Fantasy Flight Games)
Monster's Handbook (Fantasy Flight Games)
I believe Monster's Handbook has a feat that allows a dragon to change his breath weapon. I used this tactic on my epic level players when they faced an undead red dragon. What threw them off was the fact that the dragon's scales were jet black (they buffed themselves against a red's breath weapon) and with his changed and maximized breath weapon, a bolt of lightning laid the smack down on them hard. They did survive but it was something to watch.
Brother MacLaren
Explorer
Using the DMG rule of thumb for "Is this balanced?": Is this feat so good that any dragon would be foolish not to take it? If so, it is overpowered. Or is there some sort of drawback (longer time between attacks) to balance it?Ghostwind said:
It seems to be a "must-have." If the feat exists, you might as well say that every dragon has taken it, every dragon can change its breath weapon at will, and there are no expected breath weapon types associated with dragon colors. And, therefore, the PCs wouldn't have those expectations for you to take advantage of.
Slobber Monster
First Post
I ditch the whole Dragon color/metal type classification anyways. That's always seemed like an unneccessary D&Dism to me. I keep the breath weapon type - immunity relationship, or course, but I see no reason any PC should be able to eyeball an individual and know. This makes Knowledge (History) and Knowledge (Arcana) both usefull, although the DC's will often be in the 30's.
It sounds to me like the feat allows a dragon to change its breath weapon to a different type, but not at will. A Gold dragon with a cone of cold, maybe. But not a cone of cold one round, and then an acid line, and then fire/lightning line the round after that.Brother MacLaren said:
Rystil Arden
First Post
Young Adult Red Dragon vs Level 20 Rogue
Having read Endur's post about the Young Adult Red Dragon, I disagreed strongly (strongly enough to create an account to speak).
It would be a serious problem if a CR 13 Young Adult Red Dragon could defeat a Level 20 character in combat, but fortunately this isn't the case.
Let me use a 25-point buy, vanilla Rogue as an example, since in my opinion Rogues lose the most from being alone.
Derrick the Uninspiring has purchased the following items, although some have been increased in price to be slotless or a new slot:
+6 stat items for all stats, +5 mithral chain shirt, +5 mithral large shield,
+5 keen wounding holy rapier, +5 amulet of natural armour, +5 ring of protection, +5 cloak of resistance,
circlet of persuasion, wings of flying, ring of freedom of movement. He has plenty of gold left to buy useless items he picked up laong his career.
Caveat: I made this off the top of my head without really trying hard
(for instance the sword is keen and I ignore criticals, which helps the poor dragon--I just like Keen rapiers).
I'm sure I missed something, but this rogue could easily be made more powerful with a bit of effort.
Derrick the Uninspiring, Lawful Good Halfling Rogue
Strength 16, Dexterity 28, Constitution 20, Intelligence 15, Wisdom 14, Charisma 20
HP: 172 (average rounding down)
Initiative: +12
AC: 43 (+9 armour, +6 Dex, +1 Size, +7 shield, +5 natural, +5 deflection)
Saves: Fortitude +17, Reflex +23, Will +14
Attacks: +30/+25/+20 (+15 base, +5 weapon, +9 Dex, +1 Size)
Skills: Bluff +34 (23 ranks, +5 Cha, +3 Circlet, +3 Skill Focus)
Feats: Skill Focus [Bluff], Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Others
Rogue Special Abilities: Skill Mastery [Bluff], Improved Evasion, Crippling Strikes, Your Favourite
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I assume no preparation and also no surprise
Derrick wins Initiative 80.5% of the time (1- (1/400 * sigma(x,x,1,12))), but the dragon is far away so it can fly in and go first
If the dragon is smart, he will run.
If not, the dragon will probably use its breath weapon on Derrick, and he saves except on a 1, in which case he takes average 27 damage.
Derrick closes (breath weapon is a 50-foot length cone, so he has more than enough movement), and the dragon can hit on a 16 with the AoO for
average 24 damage (rounded up). Then Derrick attacks with Combat Expertise 5, and he hits except on a 1 for average 12 (rounded down) damage.
Also, the dragon loses 1 Con, which will set him up to lose 19 HP from Con loss next round.
The dragon is likely upset that its breath attack does nothing. Statistically, its best bet is to cast True Strike and then attack once with the
Bite next round, but it shouldn't know that it has a 73.5091890625% chance to miss six times with its full attack, so it will probably try this.
Assuming one attack hits, which only happens on a 20, the dragon deals his 24 again.
Then Derrick Feints, using Improved Feint and Skill Mastery to Take 10. Endur's dragon doesn't have Sense Motive, and that's fine. Even if he did,
he couldn't win the opposed check. Then Derrick Sneak Attacks (misses only on a 1) for average 46 damage, plus 2 strength damage and 1 con damage. Now the poor dragon does even less damage.
You see by now, I hope, that the dragon is in big trouble. Its worth noting that it automatically loses within 5 rounds if you ignore 1s and 20s. The dragon is no idiot, so he probably notices too, and if he flees now, it is likely a draw unless Derrick has ranged attacks,
Dimension Doors, etc with his extra gear.
Something other than a rogue would win even more easily. This is as it should be.
CR exists for a reason, and it would skew the reward to risk ratio if a CR 13 monster could beat a level 20 character reliably.
Sorry if this was long, and thanks for reading. I hope a few people who agreed with me were vindicated by this example.
Having read Endur's post about the Young Adult Red Dragon, I disagreed strongly (strongly enough to create an account to speak).
It would be a serious problem if a CR 13 Young Adult Red Dragon could defeat a Level 20 character in combat, but fortunately this isn't the case.
Let me use a 25-point buy, vanilla Rogue as an example, since in my opinion Rogues lose the most from being alone.
Derrick the Uninspiring has purchased the following items, although some have been increased in price to be slotless or a new slot:
+6 stat items for all stats, +5 mithral chain shirt, +5 mithral large shield,
+5 keen wounding holy rapier, +5 amulet of natural armour, +5 ring of protection, +5 cloak of resistance,
circlet of persuasion, wings of flying, ring of freedom of movement. He has plenty of gold left to buy useless items he picked up laong his career.
Caveat: I made this off the top of my head without really trying hard
(for instance the sword is keen and I ignore criticals, which helps the poor dragon--I just like Keen rapiers).
I'm sure I missed something, but this rogue could easily be made more powerful with a bit of effort.
Derrick the Uninspiring, Lawful Good Halfling Rogue
Strength 16, Dexterity 28, Constitution 20, Intelligence 15, Wisdom 14, Charisma 20
HP: 172 (average rounding down)
Initiative: +12
AC: 43 (+9 armour, +6 Dex, +1 Size, +7 shield, +5 natural, +5 deflection)
Saves: Fortitude +17, Reflex +23, Will +14
Attacks: +30/+25/+20 (+15 base, +5 weapon, +9 Dex, +1 Size)
Skills: Bluff +34 (23 ranks, +5 Cha, +3 Circlet, +3 Skill Focus)
Feats: Skill Focus [Bluff], Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Improved Initiative, Others
Rogue Special Abilities: Skill Mastery [Bluff], Improved Evasion, Crippling Strikes, Your Favourite
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume no preparation and also no surprise
Derrick wins Initiative 80.5% of the time (1- (1/400 * sigma(x,x,1,12))), but the dragon is far away so it can fly in and go first
If the dragon is smart, he will run.
If not, the dragon will probably use its breath weapon on Derrick, and he saves except on a 1, in which case he takes average 27 damage.
Derrick closes (breath weapon is a 50-foot length cone, so he has more than enough movement), and the dragon can hit on a 16 with the AoO for
average 24 damage (rounded up). Then Derrick attacks with Combat Expertise 5, and he hits except on a 1 for average 12 (rounded down) damage.
Also, the dragon loses 1 Con, which will set him up to lose 19 HP from Con loss next round.
The dragon is likely upset that its breath attack does nothing. Statistically, its best bet is to cast True Strike and then attack once with the
Bite next round, but it shouldn't know that it has a 73.5091890625% chance to miss six times with its full attack, so it will probably try this.
Assuming one attack hits, which only happens on a 20, the dragon deals his 24 again.
Then Derrick Feints, using Improved Feint and Skill Mastery to Take 10. Endur's dragon doesn't have Sense Motive, and that's fine. Even if he did,
he couldn't win the opposed check. Then Derrick Sneak Attacks (misses only on a 1) for average 46 damage, plus 2 strength damage and 1 con damage. Now the poor dragon does even less damage.
You see by now, I hope, that the dragon is in big trouble. Its worth noting that it automatically loses within 5 rounds if you ignore 1s and 20s. The dragon is no idiot, so he probably notices too, and if he flees now, it is likely a draw unless Derrick has ranged attacks,
Dimension Doors, etc with his extra gear.
Something other than a rogue would win even more easily. This is as it should be.
CR exists for a reason, and it would skew the reward to risk ratio if a CR 13 monster could beat a level 20 character reliably.
Sorry if this was long, and thanks for reading. I hope a few people who agreed with me were vindicated by this example.
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Evilhalfling
Adventurer
I figure the amount and type of defenses a dragon has depend on what contact it has had with humans. If the dragon lives in a vast wasteland, and rarely sees anything except beasts and other dragons (like Ahaz .... from Katherine Kerr) It will have very few defenses, and most will be set against other dragons.
If the dragon is like Smaug and deliberatly destroys large amounts of property, It should expect waves of hero's coming after its hide. It should have traps designed to weed out the weak, and weaken the strong.
If the dragon is the guardian of an artifact (Dennis McKerian) It should defenses set against mortals with mighty warriors and great magics at thier command.
Dragons are a conerstone of the game and the literature. They should always be trickey, well prepared and dangerous Foes. If the cr 13 dragon is to easy for a 20th lvl Char, then dont use him.
Hmm Truestrike, charge (320 ft) and power attack to sunder. Still not likely to work vs +5 weapon (hardness 15, hp 55) and that guy prolly has some back up, but still nasty.
If the dragon is like Smaug and deliberatly destroys large amounts of property, It should expect waves of hero's coming after its hide. It should have traps designed to weed out the weak, and weaken the strong.
If the dragon is the guardian of an artifact (Dennis McKerian) It should defenses set against mortals with mighty warriors and great magics at thier command.
Dragons are a conerstone of the game and the literature. They should always be trickey, well prepared and dangerous Foes. If the cr 13 dragon is to easy for a 20th lvl Char, then dont use him.
Hmm Truestrike, charge (320 ft) and power attack to sunder. Still not likely to work vs +5 weapon (hardness 15, hp 55) and that guy prolly has some back up, but still nasty.
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Rystil Arden
First Post
And my smart dragon story:
This dragon story has a short prologue: An azer (with the full attendant ECL) cleric 7, usually the party's weakest member by quite a bit due to the ECL 8 from azer cutting into casting, decided to prepare himself to fight a red dragon solo while the wizard was crafting items. After researching a Young Adult Dragon (the CR 13 one), this ECL 15 character cornered the dragon in its lair and, thanks to his immunity to fire and other abilities, easily slew it.
When he returned to town with a small hoard, the party's shade wizard 16 was flabbergasted. He wanted some dragon money too, and he is maxed out to provide the most possible spell damage, having defeated several powerful monsters in the past with only a spell or two. Confident in his power, he asked the barbarian's silver dragon cohort about powerful local red dragons and she (disliking the shade) pointed him towards a well-entrenched red, which research indicated was old enough to be age category Ancient (CR 23). The wizard wasn't concerned because he "borrowed" much of the party's equipment and cash, and buffed himself for fire protection and the like. Entering the red dragon's cave, he heard a voice from deep within the cave telling him to go away in a bored manner. As he continued forward, the voice continued to warn him of his imminent demise. Eventually, he stepped on a pit trap and fell inside. Little did he know that the bottom of the trap was an anti-magic field. The walls were slicked, so he couldn't climb out (thanks to poor climb checks), and he could only watch in horror as the dragon made quick work of his character.
After coming back to life, he was angered and wanted his equipment back (particularly his +6 circley of intellect) so he came after the dragon again with even more preparation: true seeing, complete immunity to fire, etc. The dragon sensed him enter as before, but he dodged the pit trap this time, and snarled at the dragon as he spat off the incantations for a pair of twinned-empowered Polar Rays (one was quickened). Then he watched again in horror as the first spell and 80% of the second spell came hurling back at him for 200+ damage. The dragon had cast spell-turning before appearing.
Yes, much of this was due to the wizard's hubris and incompetence. The same character later balefully polymorphed himself into a bird (he forgot that he couldn't cast in that form) and spent the whole session trying to find an NPC who was high-enough level to successfully dispel it. But I like to think that my crafty dragon's clever strategy helped as well.
This dragon story has a short prologue: An azer (with the full attendant ECL) cleric 7, usually the party's weakest member by quite a bit due to the ECL 8 from azer cutting into casting, decided to prepare himself to fight a red dragon solo while the wizard was crafting items. After researching a Young Adult Dragon (the CR 13 one), this ECL 15 character cornered the dragon in its lair and, thanks to his immunity to fire and other abilities, easily slew it.
When he returned to town with a small hoard, the party's shade wizard 16 was flabbergasted. He wanted some dragon money too, and he is maxed out to provide the most possible spell damage, having defeated several powerful monsters in the past with only a spell or two. Confident in his power, he asked the barbarian's silver dragon cohort about powerful local red dragons and she (disliking the shade) pointed him towards a well-entrenched red, which research indicated was old enough to be age category Ancient (CR 23). The wizard wasn't concerned because he "borrowed" much of the party's equipment and cash, and buffed himself for fire protection and the like. Entering the red dragon's cave, he heard a voice from deep within the cave telling him to go away in a bored manner. As he continued forward, the voice continued to warn him of his imminent demise. Eventually, he stepped on a pit trap and fell inside. Little did he know that the bottom of the trap was an anti-magic field. The walls were slicked, so he couldn't climb out (thanks to poor climb checks), and he could only watch in horror as the dragon made quick work of his character.
After coming back to life, he was angered and wanted his equipment back (particularly his +6 circley of intellect) so he came after the dragon again with even more preparation: true seeing, complete immunity to fire, etc. The dragon sensed him enter as before, but he dodged the pit trap this time, and snarled at the dragon as he spat off the incantations for a pair of twinned-empowered Polar Rays (one was quickened). Then he watched again in horror as the first spell and 80% of the second spell came hurling back at him for 200+ damage. The dragon had cast spell-turning before appearing.
Yes, much of this was due to the wizard's hubris and incompetence. The same character later balefully polymorphed himself into a bird (he forgot that he couldn't cast in that form) and spent the whole session trying to find an NPC who was high-enough level to successfully dispel it. But I like to think that my crafty dragon's clever strategy helped as well.
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ivocaliban
First Post
I think one needs to distinguish between stereotypical dragons of myth and how a living creature with a dragon's abilities would actually behave. When one thinks of stereotypical dragon...it's generally nearly invincible and can only be killed by the hero with the weapon. Evil dragons who have been around a while tend to be arrogant and believe themselves indestructable...which inevitably leads to their downfall. While this might not be "realistic" it's certainly a theme often repeated in mythology and fantasy.
Of course, with our modern knowledge one could equip a dragon so that he's essentially a B-52. He could stuff dead cows with explosives, light 'em up and drop 'em on his enemies if he wanted. Or use some delayed fireball spells in creative ways. Basically a dragon bombardier. In most literature dragons tend not to take full advantage of their ability to be far above their earthbound enemies. This, too, ties into their arrogance and sense of superiority...and may just go against their very nature, but it's certainly not beyond reason.
Of course, with our modern knowledge one could equip a dragon so that he's essentially a B-52. He could stuff dead cows with explosives, light 'em up and drop 'em on his enemies if he wanted. Or use some delayed fireball spells in creative ways. Basically a dragon bombardier. In most literature dragons tend not to take full advantage of their ability to be far above their earthbound enemies. This, too, ties into their arrogance and sense of superiority...and may just go against their very nature, but it's certainly not beyond reason.
shilsen
Adventurer
Rystil Arden said:
Actually, in the case above, neither your player nor you actually knowing the rules really helped
. Spell Turning doesn't turn area or effect spells, and since Polar Ray is an effect spell, the Spell Turning would have been useless in this case. Nice story, however.Other than some terrain stuff, the only trick I ever wrote for a dragon was a permanent dimension door that was invisible, covered the whole tunnel and was created by an artifact (very difficult to dispel). It would drop anyone who enters into the red dragon's lava pool. Too bad the dragon always used alter self to make itself look like a saphire (sp).
Aust Diamondew
First Post
Whenever I run a dragon that has a weakness to a paticular energy I make sure he cast protection from elements on him self (if he can). I have my dragons buff up with spells like mage armor and shield. If it can cast 5th level spells I give it quicken spell so it can rebuff itself after the party wizard cast dispel magic and so that it can take full attack actions and then hit you with a bit of extra magic missle damage.
It's all about the spells for me.
Oh and lets not forget about sundering
It's all about the spells for me.
Oh and lets not forget about sundering
Rystil Arden
First Post
It's highly nonintuitive that Spell Turning doesn't turn Polar Ray, but you're absolutely right. Wow, so spell-turning turns Horrid Wilting and Magic Missile out of all damaging spells my players actually cast (and they vastly prefer damaging no-save spells to save-or-lose vs. dragons and the like for obvious reasons). Spell turning is much less useful against my PCs than I thought. I learn something new every day. Thanks, Shilsen.shilsen said:Actually, in the case above, neither your player nor you actually knowing the rules really helped
Ooh... and don't forget:Plane Sailing said:
Magic weapon shop in the closest town to his lair, where the dragon sells magic weapons at a serious profit to the next set of adventurers. That way, the dragon can get rid of all those useless magic weapons and buy himself something nice instead - like some high-level potions or scrolls. He'll also know exactly what those weapons are capable of when the next bunch of fools tries to get in. Of course, he makes sure none of the weapons are too effective against him, or that he is prepared to counter them. Plus he can feed the PCs some cursed weapons or other items. Plus he gets a head-up from the magic shop whenever some adventurers drop by to stock up.
Sorry, but you are still wrong. I based my statement on the assumption that the character has the normal equipment and prepation of a 20th level PC, nothing Dragon-specific in there. Of course the Wizard and Cleric will have some long-lasting buffs up (Mindblank, GMW, magic Vestment, etc) but that is they way 20th level PC behave when they want to survive. For the rogue and fighter I assume nothing else than their standard equipment.iwatt said:
A fully buffed fighter or rogue could that this dragon with one hand and their eyes closed while simultanously receiting the Elder Edda backward (pretty hard to do as a fighter, but that's what Buff's are for
)Unless the PC has something to trap it with the Dragon can probably escape if in the open, but that hardly qualifies as soundly beating anybody, does it ?
iwatt said:
Having played my 17th level wizard from 1st level in a campaign lasting 4 years I do have a fair idea of what the equipment of a high level party will look like. Even with the half price for selling its not hard to gain access to the most important items unless your DM is totally stingy. With Greater Teleport the largest city in the world is just one spell away, and that is not counting all the Craft Magic XXX feats. And trust me, if you don't have Freedom of movement and fly at higher levels you are just a big pile of XP for the Bad Guys.
iwatt said:
Bzzzt, wrong again. A 20th level human wizard should have an INT of at least 30 (16 base+5 level +6 item +3 inherent), and that is with a fairly low prime stat (16). He'll have a DC of 10 (base)+9 (level) + 10 (stat) = 29 for his 9th level spells. He will hit with a touch attack unless he rolls a 1, and always penetrates SR. The Dragon has saves: Fort +16, Ref +11, Will +13, thus it has 40% chance to save with its strongest save. If you target Will it has only 25% chance, and with Ref it only saves on 18+. And that is not counting spells without any save (just SR).
iwatt said:
I do agree, Dragons are tough, and more than a match for their CR (unless the party is prepared and buffed and manages to get the fight on their terms. Our party killed a CR 23 Battledragon easily bacause we were able to dictate the battlefield and choose the time (long story why). It would have creamed us in a suprise encounter, but fully buffed (everybody had at least 20 spells running before the encounter) it went down in 3 rounds).
But 20th PCs are also insanely powerful, and no CR13 Dragon is a match for them unless the DM stacks the odds totally against the PC (and even naked in an antimagic field a 20th level barbarian would give the Dragon a fair fight).
.Ziggy
ThirdWizard
First Post
In my current campaign I've had two dragon encounters, and the PCs are now 5th level. Both encounters were complete accidents. The dragons had no elaborate traps, and being so young they didn't have minions. In fact, one dragon was scared of a local ogre warlord. Of course, a CR 6 dragon is quite a different thing than a CR 15 dragon, and you have to treat them differently.
I assume that when people say "dragon" they're thinking of Adult/Old or older dragons, ones that have had time to amass followers and learn about the world. But still, the idea of dragons outfitting themselves in magical items and setting elaborate traps in their caverns makes me cringe. I just can't imagine it. That's what minions are for. Kobolds are great for that, and there's a Dynasty of Black Dragons IMC who lord over a great many lizard men. In my last campaign, a Green Dragon of mine was ruler of a clan of Reptilian templated Ogres and a whole lot of kobolds. A Shadow Dragon once was allied with a Necromancer, who had given him command of many undead of his creation.
I think devious traps are great, but when it comes to dragons I prefer to leave the architype in tact and use other tactics to make the encounter memorable, like the magma examples.
I assume that when people say "dragon" they're thinking of Adult/Old or older dragons, ones that have had time to amass followers and learn about the world. But still, the idea of dragons outfitting themselves in magical items and setting elaborate traps in their caverns makes me cringe. I just can't imagine it. That's what minions are for. Kobolds are great for that, and there's a Dynasty of Black Dragons IMC who lord over a great many lizard men. In my last campaign, a Green Dragon of mine was ruler of a clan of Reptilian templated Ogres and a whole lot of kobolds. A Shadow Dragon once was allied with a Necromancer, who had given him command of many undead of his creation.
I think devious traps are great, but when it comes to dragons I prefer to leave the architype in tact and use other tactics to make the encounter memorable, like the magma examples.
Kalendraf
Explorer
Party was searching for a green dragon's lair. They had seen it fly overhead and it's lair was rumored to be in this general area. They finally reach a small clearing in the woods near an algae-filled skummy pond. On the opposite side of the pool, they finally see a channel in the rock face leading to a large cave mouth. Bones litter the approach, so this is *obviously* the way into its lair. They head toward the cave mouth, walking around the edge of pond. As they approach the cavemouth, the narrowing entry channel funnels them into a perfect shape for a cone or line spell attack!
They keep a close lookout on the cave mouth. Secretly, the green dragon rises up...from the pond! Dragons have blindsense so he's been able to keep track of their progress around the edge of the pond. Green dragons have waterbreathing, so he's perfectly content to stay under water. (This works for black dragons too). The skummy water prevents anything from being seen in the pond. It turns out the big cave mouth, just leads to a small cave, so the dragon winds up having the party boxed in. The party is in a bad situation, and the dragon knows it. If they plea for their lives, he might be willing to let them go for, say 1 major magic item per character. On the other hand, if he's upset, he'll just unload a cone of acid and nail the entire party in a single blast.
If things manage to go badly for the dragon, he could try to fly off, but it's more likely that he'll just dive back down in the pond to recover.
They keep a close lookout on the cave mouth. Secretly, the green dragon rises up...from the pond! Dragons have blindsense so he's been able to keep track of their progress around the edge of the pond. Green dragons have waterbreathing, so he's perfectly content to stay under water. (This works for black dragons too). The skummy water prevents anything from being seen in the pond. It turns out the big cave mouth, just leads to a small cave, so the dragon winds up having the party boxed in. The party is in a bad situation, and the dragon knows it. If they plea for their lives, he might be willing to let them go for, say 1 major magic item per character. On the other hand, if he's upset, he'll just unload a cone of acid and nail the entire party in a single blast.
If things manage to go badly for the dragon, he could try to fly off, but it's more likely that he'll just dive back down in the pond to recover.
I'm all for dragons with spells and the ocasional use of magic items (although I tend to prefer custom dragon-specific items rather than standard treasure).
In one adventure I ran, a dragon spread a thin layer of gold pieces or what looked to be gold pieces across a chamber. Under what looked to be a king's fortune was several feet of soft, non-valuable, metals. As the PCs entered the chamber and started discussing how they would carry the treasure out, the dragon popped through the door and unleashed a fiery blast of his breath weapon. The PCs faired well enough from the initial blast, but found themselves in the middle of a molten pool of soft metal with a dragon guarding the only path to safety.
No, it was not a TPK ... but the party never underestimated a dragon again after that encounter. And they learned not to bother counting money in a lair of a still living dragon.
In one adventure I ran, a dragon spread a thin layer of gold pieces or what looked to be gold pieces across a chamber. Under what looked to be a king's fortune was several feet of soft, non-valuable, metals. As the PCs entered the chamber and started discussing how they would carry the treasure out, the dragon popped through the door and unleashed a fiery blast of his breath weapon. The PCs faired well enough from the initial blast, but found themselves in the middle of a molten pool of soft metal with a dragon guarding the only path to safety.
No, it was not a TPK ... but the party never underestimated a dragon again after that encounter. And they learned not to bother counting money in a lair of a still living dragon.
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