Dragons no longer a threat?

[s/LaSH]

Dragons are cool. They figure into my campaign, of course - how could they not?

To be honest, they're not a combat adversary right now. That should change soon, however... but with small dragons. Big ones, I (and they) have no doubt would munch my fairly powerful party.

That said, officially I have no idea. I never buy modules; I write all my own adventures. I suppose that's why there are (quick count) 9 dragons currently on the cards and at least one more in the planning stages. Out of, what, twelve full adventures? I don't think of it as overboard...

 

[Caliban]

Many DM's want dragons to be the big baddies that the PC's have to fight when they are really powerful.

Or they see dragons as super-powerful creatures of myth and legend, and the PC's would never have a real chance in a fight against one, because they would only encounter the old or ancient dragons.

In my home game, I've been throwing dragons at the party since they were 2nd level (black dragon wyrmlings).

I see the older dragons as super-powerful creatures out of myth and legend, but I see the very young dragons as arrogent and overconfident creatures that tend to die in violent and messy ways. The older dragons (especially the evil ones) tend to lay clutches of eggs and then abandon their young after a decade or so. Or the younger dragons will chafe under the constraints of their parent, and set out to build their own horde.

These younger dragons tend to die in droves, because they think they are invulnerable. They are the ones that adventurers usually encounter. The dragons who survive to adulthood are convinced of their superiority (because if they weren't superior, they would be dead). They have also learned caution, and are less likely to throw themselves headlong at someone who looks like they are carrying wealth that can be added to their horde.

The older dragons tend to have whole networks of underlings and spies, who track down new sources of wealth for the dragon, and give them warning of potential thieves. They can be major plot devices for a campaign, and may be behind many of the older organizations in the world.

The oldest dragons are less interested in the goings on of lesser beings, and have accumulated hordes that keep them fairly content. They have little contact with creatures other than fellow dragons, or personal minions. However, they are the most dangerous to deal with, because they have survived thousands of life and death struggles. They have a contingency for almost every situation, and are more than willing to cut their losses and seek revenge later. Getting their horde is one thing, keeping it is much more difficult.

 

[Shadowlord]

Just wait for the Dragonlance setting where dragons are prominent.

 

[shilsen]

I like dragons. The now-5th lvl party in my latest campaign have run into two dragons (one white wyrmling and one young black). They knocked out the first (they were supposed to capture it), after some trouble, and the second fled after inflicting serious damage. Both were lower in CR than the party. So my players already have a healthy respect for dragons. Just wait till they encounter the big ones. Muaahaahaa

 

[Staffan]

A small thing that might steer many DMs away from using dragons is the "half-finished" nature of the MM writeup. Any other monster, you can just plunk down in your adventure. For a dragon, however, you have to choose skills, feats, and spells - and older dragons can have quite a lot of each.

 

[Dr. NRG]

Well NRG made it a spoiler so I must abide.

Thanks Azure. I didn't think of it at the time of original posting...

My 3E DM has rocked us more than once, and at several different levels with intelligently played dragons. Give them enough room to use their maneuverability and play them wisely, and a proportional CR dragon can be a very tough opponent. This is particularly true if they're supported by minions or mates.

NRG

 

[Nightfall]

*thinks perhaps some day in one of his campaign...there might be a dragon...*

 

[seasong]

Part of the problem is that most adventures (and campaigns) are set up without the dragons at low levels, and then the dragons have to be added in later on... restricting where they can be, and how much influence they can have. After all, where were they 10 levels ago?

In my Theralis campaign, I placed the dragons long ago. The PCs have known about Amalan since the very, very beginning (when they were first level) and have a healthy respect for his role as protector of the local wilderness and they've seen the impact he has on Theralis politics.

Someday they may have to go up against him (if Theralis politics/interests and Amalan politics/interests cease to coincide), and they generally have nightmares about it.

 

[reiella]

I personally don't like to overuse dragons, which is why they almost never show up (One Half-Dragon and one young red dragon so far).

Most of the reason being I don't trust myself well enough to portray a dragon challenge adequately.

 

[Dungannon]

A small thing that might steer many DMs away from using dragons is the "half-finished" nature of the MM writeup. Any other monster, you can just plunk down in your adventure. For a dragon, however, you have to choose skills, feats, and spells - and older dragons can have quite a lot of each.

Originally posted by reiella
Most of the reason being I don't trust myself well enough to portray a dragon challenge adequately.

I wonder how many DMs fall into one or the other of these. I know the first time I tried to DM a dragon (way back in 1e), I was a little awed at all of their abilities and wondered if I could successfully manage it. I think I did ok, as the party survived, albeit barely, and the players enjoyed themselves, but it was a few years before I attempted to play another dragon.