Dragons... what should they be?

[N0Man]

I really expected a "boobs" and Dragonborn reference by now...

I'm probably in a minority, but I never was a fan of the Dragons as also wizards concept. I can see them being knowledgeable in magic, but I always felt a spell list was just overkill in earlier editions.

However, that's just how *I* like them.

 

[Khairn]

For me, dragons have always been a deadly combination of physical power, elemental mastery and ancient wonder. They are more than simple beasts, or even mighty monsters. Their eldest are beings that can rival the younger gods in power and knowledge, their adults lay claim to vast expanses of land and can lay waste to kingdoms, while their youngest battle amongst themselves to see who has the intelligence, cunning and strength to rise above their siblings and challenge their elders for supremacy. Some sages say that a dragon was present at the birth of the world and many claim they will cause the worlds end.

A true dragon can defeat you and your allies by slashing claw, powerful bite, devastating elemental breath, magical manipulation or any other means that its calculating and cunning mind can devise.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Bite, claws, wings and breath is the baseline for me, but it really depends on the campaign. In one a dragon may be just another beast, in another it's nearly a god (and "dragon" is just its preferred shape).

Not a big fan of the whole "subdue" thing, either.
I remember reading about that as a kid and being almost confused. There's that picture of the dragon up to his neck in water, dopey expression, tongue hanging out.

That's just... sad.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I tend to consider official monster stats as an example, but don't feel at all bound to them (and consider monsters like dragons to be individuals, much like powerful NPC humans are individuals). Even with more generic and common monsters, players in my game shouldn't assume they know the capabilities of a monster because they think they're familiar with the stats in the book. I see monster books mainly as inspiration, rather than something to reference for stats and rules. I prefer to "roll my own," more often than not.

Same here - not surprisingly, I guess.

I'd just like to see, well yeah, all that stuff as stated (I mean, in the official books, even though I'd no doubt still modify things to taste, as ever.)

I do consider the rampant modification of monsters, classes, et al, to be rather more often the domain of the experienced DM (and by that, I'm not trying to appear 'kewler' or flat out better as a DM btw - I and other experienced DMs have simply been doing this for a fair while.) I might be mistaken, of course. But it's something I believe I have observed, IRL and online.

So, even if it's primarily for 'newbies' - and those with very little spare time available (or hey, insufficient inclination) for such tinkering, actually - I think there's a case to be made for more dragony dragons in the [a] MM. Er, like that, but in English, anyhow.

 

[Mark]

I want dangerous dragons, both good and evil, that have a sense of being an elder species. The more intelligent of their ilk should have extra abilities (spells, etc.) beyond physical weapons like their breath, bite, claws, and don't forget the tail! Wings and body slams are optional, IMO.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

None of the above. Claws and bite, occasional tail attacks, some have magic of varying degrees, others don't, and some of the oldest might have an aura of fear. But wing attacks? Risk my main 'escape route' and strategic advantage getting shredded? No thank you!

 

[howandwhy99]

I voted: bite, claws, wings, breath weapon, fear*, major spell use, but dragons cover the gamut of options depending on age category.

A PC dragon, for instance, would start with only the claws and a bite attack.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Actually, 1e AD&D dragons were a lot less scary than 2e or 3e. The biggest and baddest of the evil dragons had 11 HD and 8 hp per die. They got significantly upgraded in 2e.

But look at their opposition, the PCs.

 

[Lanefan]

Did not vote. (you need an "other" category)

I prefer claw-claw-bite-tail/breath/spell where spell can be variable from nothing to real high-level stuff depending on the individual dragon. Only rarely do I give a dragon wing attacks, usually if it's less intelligent than most and has no spell capability.

I broke away from 1e's idea that the damage done by the breath weapon is equal to the dragon's full h.p.; now I just roll a few d6's and add a big modifier. Something that used to be a flat 66 h.p. damage might now be 4d6 + 50, for example. This allows me to tweak the breath attack a bit; I can weaken it, or strengthen it, relative to the actual dragon and based on what the party can (on a good day) handle.

Lanefan

p.s. nastiest idea I've ever had for a breath weapon: a Dracolich, it breathes *in* instead of out, and it sucks levels from those who fail a save...

 

[Dausuul]

None of the above, as I have alluded to in. . . that other thread.

Once more with feeling: I would prefer that dragons be terrifying combatants, yep, but also that they have specific, tailored um, 'dragony' abilities. Supernatural powers and effects above and beyond 'fear aura' and the other usual suspects, such as they are. And this goes for other monsters, too. I'd love for them to be highly distinct, customised, that kind of thing.

So far, no edition of D&D has done that, IMO.

Word.