D&D General Drawbacks of a World with BG3 in it

[GMMichael]

This was an issue of sorts in my game long before BG3, and I solved it by just getting rid of guidance. It wasn't broken, but it was annoying and slowed the game down as players would interrupt each other to remind them that they had guidance, or to cast guidance if they didn't have it, etc. . .

I crave the opportunity to mess with PCs who walk around populated areas constantly casting spells on each other. If it got out of control, I'd cut the problem time in half by saying, "sorry, you can't roll Guidance. It gives you a bonus of 2.5, which means is always a 2 unless you fail by 1 point. Then it's a 3."

I like the reaction version of guidance that was introduced in an early OneD&D playtest packet. Means it's only ever worth casting when you think someone's just barely failed a check - all the utility, without the spamming.

Yeah, not for me. I don't want this implied in-game:

"Galstaff, it looks to me like you just failed your wisdom check."
"My what?"
"Wisdom...don't worry. I'm casting Guidance to change history just a little bit for you."

1.) Player Availability: My players are still disappearing on me. I see on Steam that they're playing BG3, but they're missing the start time of games, they're not showing up for board game times, and they're not answering chats/emails/texts. This happens in my gaming circle on occasion - but since BG3 was released, it happens a lot more. And I am hearing this from my friend's spouses, etc... This game is so addicting that people are missing a lot of important things. One mom got caught up and failed to pick her son up from daycare before they closed...

2.) BG3 Stunts in Tabletop: I've always tried to incorporate dynamic environments in my games, but only a small percentage of players really took advantage of it - but now that percentage has grown. The scales have tipped from "I wish my players appreciated the setup I gave them" to "wow, they're looking hard for ways to use the environment and I have to make up a lot on the fly due to weird detailed questions." Pushing, blowing things up, using water to electrify enemies, throwing things down on enemies to add falling damage to the damage inflicted, etc... I loved seeing the increased engagement ... and then I started to get a bit tired of the pushing the envelope and expectations. Example: In an encounter I described that the bad guy was hiding behind a barrel outside a shop (to get cover). One of the PCs cast a firebolt at the barrel with the expectation it would explode. All I did was say there was a barrel. I had no idea what would be in it when I said it ... and it would make no sense to leave an explosive barrel on your front porch - but the player assumed it was a setup for a big explosion. That was deflating in the moment.

3.) Rules confusion: I have really experienced players, medium experience players, and inexperienced players in my games. The medium and inexperienced players in my games are starting to assume the BG3 way of doing things are the actual rules of D&D, and they're using those versions in the game. For example, a ranger with Longstrider had never cast it before. Then they started to cast it "at the start of each day" when the PCs began to travel. I didn't pick up that they thought they were casting it as a ritual and thought that it would last all day - and they were casting it on all the PCs and their mounts. Players also have asked me where to find the rules for thrown weapon damage from throwing the weapons down at an enemy and other Bg3 environment related questions.

4.) Guidance-palooza: This has been a problem for many DMs over the years, but only rarely in my games ... until recently. Players are casting guidance CONSTANTLY now. When they arrive at a new location they cast guidance on the Sorcerer for social encounters. When the rogue goes to sneak off they get guidance. Those are fine ... but when the PCs cast guidance every 6 seconds DURING a CONVERSATION ... it gets weird. They're assuming the guidance might be getting used up on passive rolls, so it is better to keep guiding. OK, KAREN, I KNOW HOW TO SHOP ON MY OWN!!!!

5.) Mind Flayer facination: I had a bunch of hooks related to the Far Relams that the PCs had not been picking up in several games. Guess which threads have been front and center recently? The ones that relate to the Mind Flayers and Aberrations in general. I like variety in my games, but so many sandbox games where I am a DM and wher eI am a player are leaving to the Illithid heavily in the past 3 months...

These are all positive outcomes for the average D&D player. Except for #1, but that might indicate that your player is off somewhere breaking out of the D&D mold. Can't complain about that.

PS: this guy deserved a little more love and fear.

 

[Velderan]

To apply the bonus to guidance in my games, the task must begin and end within 1 minute. This means there's a lot of tasks it simply doesn't apply to because the task takes longer than 1 minute. This means it sees some use, but there's no spamming. That feels about right for a cantrip to me.

I've had multiple occasions where a PC with guidance will go out of their way to try to sneak a cast in before they know an important ability check is coming up in a social encounter. To be fair, it's created some amusing situations where another player will cause a scene to distract from the player casting so I usually let it go if they were creative enough.

 

[Velderan]

I had this exact thing happen. I was getting super frustrated that the game was treasting party members as difficult terrain and assumed it was a big or changed rule. More recently, another thread pointed out hat that is in fact the rule. I had been doing it wrong for 9 years. Somehow we read "can pass through an ally's space" as it requiring normal movement.

I haven't played BG3 yet (still busy with Tears of the Kingdom), but I'm curious how many "that's how it was supposed to work" moments I'll experience.

 

[MarkB]

The one that always amuses me is the player trying to use guidance to bolster another player's roll during a group stealth check. "Okay, Timmy gains +2 to his check. Now re-roll yours and take the lower result, since you just spoke aloud while sneaking around."

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The one that always amuses me is the player trying to use guidance to bolster another player's roll during a group stealth check. "Okay, Timmy gains +2 to his check. Now re-roll yours and take the lower result, since you just spoke aloud while sneaking around."

Guess it depends on how loud you have to speak. Whispered words are usually enough for magic in most literature. I can understand why players would think that that was the case here--and I would certainly be Pretty Upset if you responded to that with, "Okay, now you have turned your roll into a nat 1." That absolutely would feel like you were simply punishing me for doing something effective.

 

[MarkB]

Guess it depends on how loud you have to speak. Whispered words are usually enough for magic in most literature. I can understand why players would think that that was the case here--and I would certainly be Pretty Upset if you responded to that with, "Okay, now you have turned your roll into a nat 1." That absolutely would feel like you were simply punishing me for doing something effective.

Spells in D&D are generally pretty obvious when you're casting them, that's why the sorcerer gets metamagic to make them not-obvious. You don't have to shout out your verbal components, but having them need to be at least at the volume of normal conversation seems reasonable.

 

[Reynard]

Spells in D&D are generally pretty obvious when you're casting them, that's why the sorcerer gets metamagic to make them not-obvious. You don't have to shout out your verbal components, but having them need to be at least at the volume of normal conversation seems reasonable.

The SRD doesn't say anything about volume, so it is a GM call. But guidance only lasts 1 minute so for most infiltration type stealth actions it likely would not help.

 

[CreamCloud0]

i'm on the side of subtle spell metamagic existing meaning that all other spells are by implication, not subtle, though i might be inclined to let a player roll an additional stealth check for it.

as for guidance spam, does anyone impose some variation of the houserule of being immune to the effects of guidance for [timespan] after benefiting from it's effects? how does that work out in your games? and how long do you find is a good timespan, 10 minutes? an hour? the next rest?

 

[iserith]

I've had multiple occasions where a PC with guidance will go out of their way to try to sneak a cast in before they know an important ability check is coming up in a social encounter. To be fair, it's created some amusing situations where another player will cause a scene to distract from the player casting so I usually let it go if they were creative enough.

Yeah for social, almost certainly the task to convince an NPC to do a thing will take longer than a minute (except in some extenuating circumstances) so it's just not on the table for this in my games.

 

[MarkB]

as for guidance spam, does anyone impose some variation of the houserule of being immune to the effects of guidance for [timespan] after benefiting from it's effects? how does that work out in your games? and how long do you find is a good timespan, 10 minutes? an hour? the next rest?

I'm not sure the reduction in spamming is worth the additional overhead in tracking cooldowns.