Dreamlands: A fantasy Matrix

[Aaron2]

IMC, my characters have gone to a Dreamland to fulfil a specific quest and will return shortly. I've been using the rules from MotP for dreamscapes but they aren't very specific or interesting. After watching Matrix 2, I got the idea to incorporate some of the Matrixy stuff into my game while the players are dreaming away. For purposes of this discussion, I'm using the Lucid Dreaming skill from page 203.

1) A person's own Dreamscape will be like the loading programs (sadly missing from M2). Here they can dream up all sorts of fantastic equipment they might need. The DC for modifying this dreamscape will be sufficiently low for mundane equipment. If they want magic stuff, the DC rolled will determine how powerful it can be; forex: value of 1,000 gp per point rolled above DC 10. (DC12 for +1 weapon, 18 for +2 etc)

2) Since they aren't really there, replace the physical ability bonuses with those from their mental abilities. Wis will replace Str, Int will replace Dex, and Cha will replace Con. So, for example, they will have a new calculated "dream" hit points based on their Charisma. This swapping arangment will give them one save type for each ability.

3) To represent the ability to "free your mind", add your ranks in Lucid Dreaming to all rolls. Every last one of them. Obviously, I'll also remove the limit to jumping distance.

4) I'm not sure what to do about dying in the dreamatrix.

Anyone else have any ideas?


Aaron

 

[Zappo]

2) Since they aren't really there, replace the physical ability bonuses with those from their mental abilities.

Bad idea IMO. Barbarians and fighters get royally screwed, to the point of inaction.

3) To represent the ability to "free your mind", add your ranks in Lucid Dreaming to all rolls. Every last one of them. Obviously, I'll also remove the limit to jumping distance.

Far too powerful, and having it add to Knowledge rolls is a bit silly IMO. If the campaign is going to devote a significant amount of time to this dreamland, every character is going to max this. I suggest that either you only add it as an enhancement bonus to Jump, Tumble, Swim, Climb, Balance and to Strength checks, or that you allow it to substitute for any of these checks. If you want it to be powerful, add AC, to-hit, and Reflex saves to the list.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I agree with not adding the Lucid Dreaming to all checks. I'd go with replacing (maybe a certain number of times per day, based on level). I'd also be leery of replacing stats for the same reason Zappo says - it disproportionately screws the fighters and rogues.

Way back in 1st edition days, I played in a game where the dreamworld was vital to the campaign. You couldn't really get killed there - but you'd feel some bruises when you woke up. One person was hit by a sword of sharpness in the dreamworld, and woke up with a broken arm, and that was the worst of it.

We learned that we could affect the dreamworld, creating and modifying objects, although not magical ones.

I'd forego the "loading program" bit, and have them able to manipulate the shared dreamscape anywhere.

PC: "What's in the box?"
DM: "What do you want to be in the box?"

Don't tell them they can do this. It will be immensely rewarding to them if they figure it out on their own (as we did in our game).

I'm going to be using a sort of Dream plane in my next campaign world, and I'm hoping this thread draws some good ideas...

 

[Aaron2]

Re: Re: Dreamlands: A fantasy Matrix

Bad idea IMO. Barbarians and fighters get royally screwed, to the point of inaction.

What do you mean "point of inaction"? The Barb of the party will go from +15 to hit to +12, while the Ranger will stay the same. I guess it depends on how lopsided your party's stats are.

Far too powerful, and having it add to Knowledge rolls is a bit silly IMO.

Since you can't gain XP, treasure or die in a dream, I'm not too concerned about power levels.

As to adding to Knowledge, its kinda like waking up with a good idea only to realize that it makes no sense whatsoever.

RE: The "loading program", you can modify other dreamscapes, its just alot more difficult. Kinda like the movie "Dreamscape."


Aaron

 

[Zappo]

Re: Re: Re: Dreamlands: A fantasy Matrix

What do you mean "point of inaction"? The Barb of the party will go from +15 to hit to +12, while the Ranger will stay the same. I guess it depends on how lopsided your party's stats are.

With "point of inaction" I mean that the character may decide to just stay out of the dreamland. I've had this happen with the Planescape Astral plane. In 2E it swapped stats much in the same way as you described, and fighters just wouldn't get anywhere near. I kept this rule in 3E hoping that the more standardized stats would help, but they didn't. I eventually dropped the rule. The barb won't just go from +15 to +12; he'll more likely go to +11 or +10, lose access to the Power Attack feat chain, lose 4/5 points of damage per attack (more if he uses a two-handed weapon), and lose a huge amount of hit points, enough to prevent him from being the tank. The cleric meanwhile gets a substantial combat boost, the wizard gets extra AC, and the sorc gets more HP than the barb himself. Swapping stats around just doesn't work.

Since you can't gain XP, treasure or die in a dream, I'm not too concerned about power levels.

As to adding to Knowledge, its kinda like waking up with a good idea only to realize that it makes no sense whatsoever.

The potential situation here is that you'll have a fighter with a commoner's stats and not much else, alongside a cleric who fights like Neo and casts spells. Not fun.

Basically, everyone either maxes this skill or is 100% overshadowed in each and every field by the characters who did. And the gods help you if it's cross-class!

 

[Hand of Evil]

Have to see how they do it in the CoC Dreamland book.

I think I would make it appear real and assign a DC to wake up based on that reality. Normal dream take 10, semi-dreamland maybe a DC of 15, light dreamland DC 20, Deamland 25, deep 30. Then give a % of damage carries back over when the character wakes, light 15%, Dreamland 30%, deep 50%. If the character does not wake, he keep taking damage, so if he was in deep dreamland and took damage his body would take 50% of damage but if he failed to wake up the next time his body would take another 50% of damage from combat, this means the person could die in their sleep...Now I would play it that if the body dies and the dream is alive, the person lives on in the Dreamland.

 

[Aaron2]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Dreamlands: A fantasy Matrix

With "point of inaction" I mean that the character may decide to just stay out of the dreamland. I've had this happen with the Planescape Astral plane. In 2E it swapped stats much in the same way as you described, and fighters just wouldn't get anywhere near. I kept this rule in 3E hoping that the more standardized stats would help, but they didn't. I eventually dropped the rule. The barb won't just go from +15 to +12; he'll more likely go to +11 or +10, lose access to the Power Attack feat chain, lose 4/5 points of damage per attack (more if he uses a two-handed weapon), and lose a huge amount of hit points, enough to prevent him from being the tank. The cleric meanwhile gets a substantial combat boost, the wizard gets extra AC, and the sorc gets more HP than the barb himself. Swapping stats around just doesn't work.The potential situation here is that you'll have a fighter with a commoner's stats and not much else, alongside a cleric who fights like Neo and casts spells. Not fun.

The player of the Barb (who will drop to +12, I checked) is a pretty cool guy. I'm sure he'll take his sucktitude in stride. Even if he does complain, at least its different from his usual complaint about not being able to get to the proper Cleave spot so he only killed three Mind Flayers this round instead of all four.

I'll rule that things that normally affect Strength (such as spells, items or raging) will still affect tohit and damage as normal.

Basically, everyone either maxes this skill or is 100% overshadowed in each and every field by the characters who did.

This isn't a complete campaign, just a few adventures. In the last two years only one session so far has been a dreamland one. I plan on three to four more. At this time, no one has more than one rank in Dreaming and none can possibly max it out by the time the adventure starts, IFAICT.


Aaron

 

[Robbert Raets]

Could be fun. Now, if you were to come up with some bogus reason why dying in the dream world means death in the real world too....

 

[Tiefling]

2) Since they aren't really there, replace the physical ability bonuses with those from their mental abilities. Wis will replace Str, Int will replace Dex, and Cha will replace Con. So, for example, they will have a new calculated "dream" hit points based on their Charisma. This swapping arangment will give them one save type for each ability.

I would instead set it up such that the characters, by default, have the same ability scores as in the real world. If they want they can choose to replace any or all of their physical ability scores with the corresponding mental one if they succeed at a Lucid Dreaming check of some sort.

This kind of corresponds to the Matrix. Remember in the sparring program in the first movie, Morpheus explains to Neo that his strength and speed in the Matrix are not limited by his strength and speed in the real world, and that he only expects that they are the same. If he can overcome this expectation, he can be stronger, faster, etc.