Drenai Campaign = Iron Heroes + Magic of the Incarnum?

[Erekose]

I haven't read through Magic of the Incarnum yet, but from what I've heard it sounds to me as if a melding of the Iron Heroes rules (minus the Arcanist) with the Magic of the Incarnum Incarnate and/or Totemist might make a good underlying ruleset for a Drenai campaign.

I guess the only issue would be manipulating the rules such that the Incarnate/Totemist was akin to the classes in Iron Heroes?

What do other people think?

[As an aside I can't help but think that the PrC Dwarven Defender was produced with Druss the Legend in mind!]

 

[Erekose]

Hmm . . . somewhat surprised that no one has a comment on this. May be I should post it on the Iron Heroes message boards . . .

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I don't really see Magic of Incarnum having any real place in any sort of Drenai d20 game. Psionics are MUCH more appropriate.

Iron Heroes is actually a pretty good choice, given the relatively low (Arthur C. Clarkeian) magic of the setting. I'm not sure I'd want to try and adapt it, but it'd be pretty easy to do with IH...Vorpal Hurricane is a very good way of representing how Druss lived so long. ("Attack me? Okay, sure, just make sure you don't go down first...yep!")

Brad

 

[Aus_Snow]

Well, as I'm going to be running a Drenai campaign in the near future, it seems appropriate that I chime in with my take on the whole thing.


Iron Heroes? Check.
Magic of Incarnum? Not my cup o' tea at all, and - from what I've seen - not very much use for this style of campaign (IMO).


I agree that Iron Heroes should cover almost everything, with some tweaking for 'accuracy' in game mechanics and flavour. What's missing is some kind of Mystic / Psychic class or thereabouts, a Shaman class or something that would suffice to cover that role, and. . . actually, as far as I can remember (I'll be going over Gemmell's writings again soon to refamiliarise myself with everything Drenai - it's been years), that would be about it. Not that I've read many of the later books, mind you.

Each of those class types would have to be stripped back in terms of magic / psionics / supernatural power though, most likely, to stay true to the spirit of Gemmell's works.


Just some of my thoughts at this point, very much pre-campaign.



edit --- in fact, I'm starting to think that most (if not all) of the flashy, fire-and-forget D&D-style magic would be completely inappropriate, and that - for the most part - one of the systems for rituals, incantations etc. might be perfect. . . for Shaman-like NPCs etc., that is. The Thirty, and folks in their general vicinity, hm. . . that's a different matter again.

further edit --- another Drenai-related thing crossed my mind - there might also be a place for the Arcana Evolved Champion class.

 

[Erekose]

Well, as I'm going to be running a Drenai campaign in the near future, it seems appropriate that I chime in with my take on the whole thing.


Iron Heroes? Check.
Magic of Incarnum? Not my cup o' tea at all, and - from what I've seen - not very much use for this style of campaign (IMO).


I agree that Iron Heroes should cover almost everything, with some tweaking for 'accuracy' in game mechanics and flavour. What's missing is some kind of Mystic / Psychic class or thereabouts, a Shaman class or something that would suffice to cover that role, and. . . actually, as far as I can remember (I'll be going over Gemmell's writings again soon to refamiliarise myself with everything Drenai - it's been years), that would be about it. Not that I've read many of the later books, mind you.

Each of those class types would have to be stripped back in terms of magic / psionics / supernatural power though, most likely, to stay true to the spirit of Gemmell's works.


Just some of my thoughts at this point, very much pre-campaign.



edit --- in fact, I'm starting to think that most (if not all) of the flashy, fire-and-forget D&D-style magic would be completely inappropriate, and that - for the most part - one of the systems for rituals, incantations etc. might be perfect. . . for Shaman-like NPCs etc., that is. The Thirty, and folks in their general vicinity, hm. . . that's a different matter again.

further edit --- another Drenai-related thing crossed my mind - there might also be a place for the Arcana Evolved Champion class.

Hmm . . . interesting to read another take on the subject. As I said I've not actually read Magic of the Incarnum yet but it struck me at face value that magic which uses souls could be a useful vehicle for the Shaman class that the Nadir tend to favour.

Holistically speaking - I feel that for a true representation of the spellcasting ability displayed in the Drenai novels (and most of his other work) by either the Thirty or the Shamen should be the same underlying magical/spiritual force.

IMHO, a single member of the Thirty compared to a single Shaman should be on a par with each other in terms of power. However, the Shaman bolsters his power enormously by sacrificing others and feeding his spiritual power of these deaths. The Thirty can magnify their own power only when they become the One which is inherently dangerous.

 

[Enkhidu]

...IMHO, a single member of the Thirty compared to a single Shaman should be on a par with each other in terms of power. However, the Shaman bolsters his power enormously by sacrificing others and feeding his spiritual power of these deaths. The Thirty can magnify their own power only when they become the One which is inherently dangerous.

One way to do it would be to model the non-flashy powers via psionics or something similar and then overlay two mechanics over top of it depending on the flavor of the practitioner: ritual magic for the Nadir and cooperative casting for the Thirty.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Hmm . . . interesting to read another take on the subject. As I said I've not actually read Magic of the Incarnum yet but it struck me at face value that magic which uses souls could be a useful vehicle for the Shaman class that the Nadir tend to favour.

Incarnum isn't actually souls. A soulmeld isn't, say, the soul of Uncle Bob stuffed into your feet to make you go faster. It's more like the Force as shiny bluish stuff that you use. Souls are drawn from it, and go back to it, but you don't go plucking souls out to do stuff with it. It's really nothing like anything from the Drenai or other Gemmell novels.

IMHO, a single member of the Thirty compared to a single Shaman should be on a par with each other in terms of power.

Yes; effectively, you could have a kid who'd've become a shaman if he were born on the Nadir steppes instead get drafted into a Temple of the Thirty, so there has to be some sort of quality, which could be represented by one of the backgrounds in IH. Beyond that, you'd differentiate based on levels, both total quantity and classes taken. The various members of the Thirty we've seen display different levels of martial and psychic aptitude, so odds are that the Thirty has its own prestige class; Decado could barely do any psychic work, but was a fearsome fighter, whereas Dardalion, while very powerful on the astral, was nearly hopeless with any sort of weapon.

Basically, a shaman would probably be pure Arcanist until he entered the Nadir Shaman PrC, whereas a Thirty Templar would have a mix of martial classes and Arcanist in order to qualify for the Thirty Templar PrC.

Brad

 

[Aus_Snow]

cignus_pfaccari, that seems to make a lot of sense, in accordance with what I can remember of the setting details, anyway.

Anyone have a good idea for a starting point for each of those PrC's though? Or, on the other hand, would it be better to start from scratch with those?

 

[Erekose]

Basically, a shaman would probably be pure Arcanist until he entered the Nadir Shaman PrC, whereas a Thirty Templar would have a mix of martial classes and Arcanist in order to qualify for the Thirty Templar PrC.Brad

I know this may fly in the face of what I've said earlier but I have always imagined the best class (with some tweaking) to be the basis for a member of The Thirty would be the monk.

Thinking of the "named" members in Legend they would be:

Vintar - the Abbott of Swords / Soul of The Thirty
Serbitar - Voice of The Thirty (Leader when The Thirty ride off to die)
Menahem - Eyes of The Thirty
Arbedark - Heart of The Thirty

Of the above the Eyes & Heart are more combat-focused and the Soul & Voice more mystical.

Personally I would prefer the monk class to be revised in such a way that these are merely choices open to high level monks. However I can see why other might prefer to see them as prestige classes. Although even then, I would advocate that the Soul is actually the high level base class option.

Perhaps the options could be introduced like the combat options are for the 3.5E ranger?

Also, as an aside, the whole telepathy/mind reading power for me would be limited in scope for early levels in the base class. Perhaps initially just to other members of The Thirty and then limited in distance before being the more open ended power that we see in the novels.

Just my thoughts . . .