Drow and level adjustment

[EyeontheMountain]

I voted two mainly becsue they have two sets of powerful abilities, the SR and the unequal ability adjustments. Taht said, I would probably allow a Drow to buy offf one lA at about level 6 or so,. but not the second (I am not a fan of allowing races to buy off all level adjustmetns, you get an advantage, you take a penalty.)

Most races i allow to buy down to one.

The other race mentioned aboe, the Whisper Gnome definitely should be a +1, but not a +2 It is insanely good for rogue, and very sweet for any other class but a fighter.

I would be interested in seeing alternative LA buyoff strategies, the UA one doesn't work well in my opinion. It is either laughably cheap +1 LA to +2 LA, or impossible +4 LA and above. Only +3 LA seems to be the right cost for abilities, like a Half-Dragon, for example.

 

[BlueBlackRed]

I'm all for a +10 level adjustment.
But I'll settle for the current +2.

 

[Seeten]

Not according to any rule I've read. Where exactly do you come up with the idea that -2 hit dice equals -2 hit dice on one side?

-- N

I said to the DM, who is also on these boards, by the by, "Hey, how are we doing LA in this gestalt?", and he said, "You can put it on one side, or the other, or spread it over both, your choice."

Thus, I went Dread Necromancer 4/Hexblade 2 and had lots of Drowish fun in the WLD.

 

[Mokona]

Do drow deserve their level adjustment? Should they even have one?

Drow should be changed so that they deserve a +0 level adjustment. In general Wizards doesn't give enough benefits per point of level adjustment because they underestimate the drawback of having less hit points, fewer skill points, worse spells, fewer spells, weaker special abilities, fewer class abilities, and sometimes fewer attacks for a fighter.

Remove special abilities from the drow race until they are a +0 race like elf and dwarf. Allow them to buy those other special abilities with class-racial substitution levels, racial paragon levels, and feats restricted to drow.

As I understand it most people seldom play characters above 8th or at most 10th level. During these low levels is when the level adjustment hurts the worst. At 2nd level a +1 LA creature has half as many hit points as the rest of the party and is likely to die. It's even more damaging at low levels for +2 or +3 level adjusted races.

 

[delericho]

I think they're a bit too powerful for a +1 LA, so +2 is about right.

That said, I don't consider creatures with an LA of +2 or higher competitive as PC races, as that adjustment really hurts. And anyway, I'm no fan of the LA rules at all. I would be inclined with replacing those rules with 'monster classes' which give fairly weak hit dice, BAB and save adjustments (and maybe stack spellcasting, depending on the race), but do give something. I would then make those levels compulsory, either by requiring them as the first levels taken by such a character, or by not allowing characters of lower level than would be required to get all the levels.

(So, a 15th level Drow would have classes Drow 2/Other 13, with those first two 'levels' giving the SA, darkvision, ability adjustments, and perhaps d6 hit points, Poor BAB, and one good save.)

 

[Orius]

Seriously though, I don't know if I'd bother messing with it. I will never, ever, EVER allow drow PCs in my game, so the LA for PCs is irrelevant. As a DM I don't really want it too high, because it'll mess up XP.

 

[jmucchiello]

There's always the Unearthed Arcana rules for that. But the problem is, while an Fire Resistance 5 is no big deal at the levels when even the mage has 100 hit points, a +4 to an attribute is still a huge advantage, since it stacks with all the attribute boosters.

Yes, but the drow wizard with 3 hit points at ECL 3 still has to survive up to level 4 (ECL 6) in order to make the first payment. Not very likely.

 

[Drowbane]

I said to the DM, who is also on these boards, by the by, "Hey, how are we doing LA in this gestalt?", and he said, "You can put it on one side, or the other, or spread it over both, your choice."

Which is how it is handled by every DM (self included) who has considered allowing Gestalt. The way Monstrous Class levels work only supports this interpretation. YMMV

 

[WarlockLord]

Fine. Go enjoy your game.

Clearly there are a lot of people who disagree, but we have no control over your game. So you can do what you like there.

Here, people want to know about balance vs. other races, while your argument seems to discount any ability that you can think of a counter-example for. That's kinda silly, since any ability has some limitations -- but having an ability (like SR) is better than not having it, even if it's not perfect. And quite specifically, Level Adjustment is a measure of how much better it is to have a group of abilities than not have them.

If you think -2 Con justifies +2 Dex, +2 Int and +2 Cha with no LA, just give that abiltiy set to all Elves. See how balanced that is.

Anyway, enjoy your game. -- N

Touche. Still, I'm not sure that group of abilities makes a 2nd level character. Maybe +1. My real problem with the level adjustment is the fact that, to take full advantage of the ability set, you have to play as an arcane spellcaster. You are then punished by losing two character levels.


Anyway, I'm thinking about taking this as my drow:

All of the following are base racial abilities for the drow.

Ability Score Adjustments: +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence.

Size: Drow are Medium size.

Speed: Drow base land speed is 30 feet.

Proficiencies: A drow is proficient with the hand crossbow, rapier, and short sword.

Dancing Lights (Sp): A drow may use dancing lights (caster level equals drow's character level) once per day.

Darkvision (Ex): A drow has darkvision to a 60-foot range.

Immunities (Ex): A drow is immune to magic sleep effects.

Light Blindness (Ex): Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds a drow for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, he is dazzled as long as he remains in the affected area.

Skill Bonuses: A drow has a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. Furthermore, a drow who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if he were actively looking for it.

Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, Undercommon. Bonus Languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Draconic, Drow Sign Language, Gnome, Goblin.

Favored Class: Wizard (male) or cleric (female). A multiclass drow's wizard or cleric class (male or female, respectively) does not count when determining whether an experience point penalty applies

I got it from this link: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a

It has a drow racial class.

 

[MerricB]

I think the LA +2 for drow is pretty accurate, but it isn't so accurate at low levels.

Complete Psionic had a new version of LA/racial levels where the lower levels gave only partial racial abilities (with normal class levels) until eventually the LA reached parity.

For a drow, it could run something like this:
1st level - character level 1, some racial abilities
2nd level - character level 1, more racial abilities
3rd level - character level 2, more racial abilities
4th level - character level 2, more racial abilities
5th level - character level 3, full drow racial abilities

(although, perhaps the full drow should occur at 6th or 7th level...)

Cheers!