Drow and level adjustment

[I'm A Banana]

Play a PHB elf with pitch black skin. There is your +0 ECL

This is the correct answer.

Next Question.

 

[Nifft]

I said to the DM, who is also on these boards, by the by, "Hey, how are we doing LA in this gestalt?", and he said, "You can put it on one side, or the other, or spread it over both, your choice."

Wow! For future reference, Templates are almost always better than actual levels. You should try getting the DM to accept "template levels" (LA broken into a level-like progression, though obviously no actual HD or skills or...) which WotC has on its site somewhere for Half-Fiend, Half-Dragon and Half-Celestial.

Anyway, it's better to be a Half-Celestial Mineral Warrior Woodling Half-Troll Shadow-Creature Mage-Bred whatever than it would be to put anything else on the other side.

Basically, the reason Gestalt isn't broken is that most class abilities are active (require an action to use), and many passive abilities overlap or are mutually exclusive. A Barbarian can't take anything on the other side of his Gestalt to make his strength higher. However, if a Barbarian could "spend" three levels of whatever to gain the Half-Dragon template for free, he'd be very happy. +8 Str, boost to Con, Int and Dex, and immunity to some Will saves. That's better than most other things he could take.

Half-Celestial and Half-Fiend are even worse -- they grant spell-like abilities based on your HD, and are "balanced" around the idea that your HD will be lower than a normal PC.

So, forget Drow. Go for Half-Fiend or Half-Celestial // anything 4, and then keep up with template addition.

Gestalt = more flexibility.
Free LA = more focus.

As we all know, D&D combat is balanced around the focused rather than the flexible.

-- N

 

[Psion]

Awesome SR: +1
Darkvision that makes everyone else's Darkvision look like teh suk: +.5
+6/-2 ability scores: +1 or +.5, depending on size of point buy

Total: +2

Succinctly put.

That said, as it the case with many LA races, it really socs spellcasters in the gut. I'd make a workaround for that if I were especially concerned about making dark elves a widely playable PC race.

 

[Klaus]

Succinctly put.

That said, as it the case with many LA races, it really socs spellcasters in the gut. I'd make a workaround for that if I were especially concerned about making dark elves a widely playable PC race.

An easy way for that is to rule that spellcasting drow must forsake their Spell Resistance. Presto: LA +1.

 

[Miles Pilitus]

I said +2, but I think Klaus and a lot of the others here have the right idea to take away the spell resistance and make them a +1 ECL and a more playable, if that's what you desire.

If you don't want them as a PC race, you need to talk with the people in your group and ask them to not pick races that would cause them to be hunted down.

 

[iwatt]

Yes, but the drow wizard with 3 hit points at ECL 3 still has to survive up to level 4 (ECL 6) in order to make the first payment. Not very likely.

Which is why I've always found that PCs with LA should never take a race which uses 50% or more of his starting ECL.

So an ECL 3 drow, not very good.

An ECL 5 drow, is better off.

 

[WarlockLord]

What if we gave LA creature "epic levels" equal to their LA? I mean, they get hit die, saves, BAB, skill etc. of their classs, but don't get increased spellcasting/special abilites/bonus feats (these are replaced by racial abilities, and pushed back).

 

[Plane Sailing]

Fine. Go enjoy your game.

Clearly there are a lot of people who disagree, but we have no control over your game. So you can do what you like there.

Here, people want to know about balance vs. other races, while your argument seems to discount any ability that you can think of a counter-example for... etc

Nifft, ditch the passive-aggressive stance now please. It is unpleasant, unwarranted and unwanted.

If for some reason you don't understand this, please email me.

Thanks.

 

[painandgreed]

I'd vote +0 for my game. The plain matter of the fact is that despite everything that is listed, you also pick up the the hatred of a good number of creatures like any other elf that recognises you for what you are. You would also be held to the commands of Lolth that dictate the rules for Drow culture IMC. Being a Drow may pick you up some good abilities, but rest assured that you are going to need them, and unless playing in a Drow campaign or wanting to play the hated fugitive, they will not be worth the RPing disadadvantages that come with the race. So, from a game balance viewpoint, no LA is probably needed.

 

[smootrk]

I'd vote +0 for my game. The plain matter of the fact is that despite everything that is listed, you also pick up the the hatred of a good number of creatures like any other elf that recognises you for what you are. You would also be held to the commands of Lolth that dictate the rules for Drow culture IMC. Being a Drow may pick you up some good abilities, but rest assured that you are going to need them, and unless playing in a Drow campaign or wanting to play the hated fugitive, they will not be worth the RPing disadadvantages that come with the race. So, from a game balance viewpoint, no LA is probably needed.

I will agree with this.

Playing in a vacuum, basically Drow PC of x level vs. another PC of x level... then yes. Drow is more powerful, but in campaigns that I would run, the Drow PC must do much roleplay to survive. Whole towns might turn out with pitchforks and torches to chase the pc around. Level adjustment would be irrelevant while playing in that environment - the PC would indeed need the boost.