Druid Help!

[Friend of the Dork]

Its very easy to justify things. You become the you equiv. of a bear, you are a strong man - above average, so you become a strong bear. Stat block in themselves are an abstraction, of course every brown bear is not the same, its just a convenient way to simulate things.

And come on you get +20 to your disguise check! Only the keenest of eyes are going to spot you are anything other than an animal - and quite right to your mind is still your own you do not gain the animals mannerisms.

If you have above average Strength and change to a Large Bear (Beast Shape 2) you get 16 strength. That makes you still a weak Bear. If you got the Bear's actual "racial modifier" added to your original strength you would have a much higher strength, but you only get a size bonus of +4. I couldn't even find the entry where it says you get the Bear's claw attack... it has to be there right? Right?

Despite the bonus I don't think the skill fits. If you behave in a very unbearly fashion then it should be easier to understand something is off, but here we are talking about actually seeing through a disguise. Except it's not supposed to be a disguise, it's supposed to be an actual physical transformation!

 

[GlassEye]

I couldn't even find the entry where it says you get the Bear's claw attack... it has to be there right? Right?

And it is, Core Rulebook page 212 in the description of polymorph magics. I find it irritating that you have to read sections in three different locations in the book (maybe more) to get the full picture about wild shape.

 

[Friend of the Dork]

And it is, Core Rulebook page 212 in the description of polymorph magics. I find it irritating that you have to read sections in three different locations in the book (maybe more) to get the full picture about wild shape.

Yeah that's kinda ridiculous.

The way I see it, as long as you only use animals from RL 3.5 Wild Shape worked very well. Yes, you could go from a 8 Str human to a 19 Str bear at 5th level, but the Fighter with 18 str would still probably outdamage you, and your AC would be really bad.

It's when you start using Dinossaurs and don't limit the animals to what the Druid knows and is familar with you get a problem.

The way I see it PF Wild Shape is about getting special abilities and movements (Scent, Flight etc.), and the best you can get early on is a flying bird with Natural Spell. Other than that there is no point in shifting to an animal. Even at 8th level you only get +6 size bonus to str (and we're talking Huge here, they often have Strength scores of 25-30). Even a Druid with 18 base strength (nerfing all his other stats) and with a +6 str magic item will just barely get the strength of a typical Elephant.

 

[heymitch]

Yeah that's kinda ridiculous.

The way I see it, as long as you only use animals from RL 3.5 Wild Shape worked very well. Yes, you could go from a 8 Str human to a 19 Str bear at 5th level, but the Fighter with 18 str would still probably outdamage you, and your AC would be really bad.

It's when you start using Dinossaurs and don't limit the animals to what the Druid knows and is familar with you get a problem.

The way I see it PF Wild Shape is about getting special abilities and movements (Scent, Flight etc.), and the best you can get early on is a flying bird with Natural Spell. Other than that there is no point in shifting to an animal. Even at 8th level you only get +6 size bonus to str (and we're talking Huge here, they often have Strength scores of 25-30). Even a Druid with 18 base strength (nerfing all his other stats) and with a +6 str magic item will just barely get the strength of a typical Elephant.

No point in Wild Shaping? Since you didn't even know that you get all of a creatures attacks, it's pretty obvious that you haven't played a Pathfinder Druid.

Getting a +6 size bonus to Strength, while giving up practically nothing, is still a net gain.

You're going to have Natural Spell as your 5th level feat...end of story.

So, you can cast in your wild shape forms with no problem.

At 4th and 5th level, you can be a Deinonychus, with 2 talon attacks, a bite, and foreclaws. You can move at 60 feet, have low-light vision and scent. in addition, you gain a +2 size bonus to Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus (and barkskin stacks with this).

At 6th and 7th level, you can be a Dire Tiger, with 2 claws and a bite (all three of which include the Grab ability). You get pounce, low-light vision, scent, a move of 40 feet, 10' reach, a +4 size bonus to Strength, -2 penalty to Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus.

You can also take a Small Elemental form at this level, and gain a Fly speed, or a Swim speed, or Earth Glide, depending on the form.

At 8th and 9th level, you can be an Allosaurus, with a bite (plus grab), 2 claws, 2 rake attacks, pounce, low-light vision, scent, 15' reach, 50' move, a +6 size bonus to Strength, a -4 penalty to Dexterity, and a +6 natural armor bonus.

By 12th level, you're taking the form of an Elder Elemental. For example, an Elder Air Elemental, with immunity to bleed damage, critical hits, and sneak attacks, DR 5/-, +4 size bonus to Strength, +6 size bonus to Dexterity, +4 natural armor bonus (your Barkskin spell adds another +5 to this, by the way), a fly speed of 100' (perfect), darkvision 60', 2 slam attacks, 15' reach, and a DC 27 Whirlwind attack. And you can cast spells normally, and remain in this form for at least 12 hours, all with a single use of Wild Shape.

Will you be a damage monster? No. At early levels, you'll be a decent 2nd line fighter/flank buddy (except you'll have full casting progression). Later, you'll have tons of free buffs and abilities that last for many hours, and don't detract from your spell casting in the least.

I understand that you felt the 3.5 wild shape didn't need fixing (I disagree), but before you judge the changes Pathfinder made so harshly, you might want to actually find out what those rules are.