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Druid or Shifter? (Powergaming)

kristov

Explorer
Which seems to be better to you?

I get to start my character off at 13th level and we are going into epic levels.

So far im thinking either

Druid 5/Shifter 8 (less spells, but shortly i would be able to shift into anything at will)

or

Druid 12/Shifter 1 (so I can use my equipment when shifted and i get alot more spells)

As a Shifter, do you still need wild spell? And can you still not talk in any language including that which you are shifted into?

-Kristov
 

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I'm currently playing a human Bbn 1 / Drd 7 / Shi 2. The Bbn level was the first level taken (12 hp, +10 ft. movement, rage for tough fights), 7 druid levels to get some flashy (Flame Strike) and useful (Reincarnate, Cure Serious Wounds) spells and a good stock of WS per day (3x).

A monk level would boost AC and saves which is quite useful...;).

Feats: A must is Natural spell (MotW), Endurance and Alertness are requirements. In epic levels, take penetrate DR, colossal and dragon shape and advance as a druid to improve spell power after the 10th shifter level (unless there's a description of an epic shifter).

High CON and WIS are important stats.
 

Personally, in my opinion shifters are mad powerful. You can get regenerate, spell immunity, 10x speed, ability drains, basically anything you want for any situation. But if your going to do it, go for the higher levels of shifter, that's where the money forms are.
 

Shifter powers

So do you basically just get all of the powers/feats/skills of whatever you turn into without any real limitations as a shifter?

So if im a troll, i get regeneration, 2 claws, a bite and a rend attack?

If im a devil or somethign do i get weapon immunities, spell immunities, spell resistance, and innate powers as usual?

THanks,

Chris
 

Re: Shifter powers

kristov said:
So do you basically just get all of the powers/feats/skills of whatever you turn into without any real limitations as a shifter?

So if im a troll, i get regeneration, 2 claws, a bite and a rend attack?

If im a devil or somethign do i get weapon immunities, spell immunities, spell resistance, and innate powers as usual?

THanks,

Chris

You get the physical and natural abilities (there tend to be a lot of arguments about exactly what this includes), racial bonuses, feats, and extraordinary abilities of the form selected. You do not get any of its supernatural or spell-like abilities.
 

Well, if you can afford equipment that gives you Greater Magic Fang, I suggest the direct Shifter Route - otherwise, consider taking some more Druid levels for more castings of Greater Magic Fang. (4+ 3rd level slots and some 4th level slots, and a greater "+" when casting it)

(My own Shifter is Druid8/Shifter9 at this time, started at Druid8/Shifter5, if I remember correctly)


For some of the special abilities:

Regeneration does only help you against damage you take in the form you currently are, because it makes regular damage to subdual damage and heals this subdual damage.

Fast Healing does heal every damage you have.

A limitation you could (and I do as a player) interprete from the rules is, that new forms cannot help you with damage or other penalties you suffered in earlier ones. (Remember, your hitpoints do not change when you choose a new form)

You gain Spell Resistance, because this is an extraordinary ability. For the same reason, you gain also Magic Immunity from Golems or the Will o`Whisp.

Since you gain every extraordinary ability, be careful - not all of these abilities are good for you (the Rakashas Vulnerability to blessed crossbow bolts, the Berserk ability of Golems)

It is unclear if the HD limit for forms still applies for Druid/Shifters(meaning you may never take forms that have more HD than you). I decided to take the HD limit - it forces me to be more creative with forms, instead of simply taking the most powerful one...


Really powerful forms:

The outsider ones, especially the celestials (look at Devils and Demons, laugh, and flip to the celestial pages :) )

Giants (including Trolls) are great forms thanks to the incredible strength.

Golems are very powerful, and the Stone Golem has no severe weakness.
Speaking of Contruct Creatures, remember that you can take the form of many objects when you choose the Mimic (an Abberation) or the Animated Objects (all Constructs).

The Treant or the Tendricolous are awesome plant creatures - with some luck you can even swallow a Dragon with the last form :)

Legendary Apes and many of the other dire or greater animals have high strength and good abilities. (Even the "standard" Elephant can be very powerful :) )

Flying Forms: Giant Eagle at day and Giant Owl at night.
(Consider taking the Improved Fly Feat)
Later forms may be some Dragons (if you need speed, not maneuverability), and maybe some outsiders (arrowhawks?). I can`t remember the best choice, I never really needed one of them.

Forms for fun: Aboleth (well, actually also useful in water), Bulette, Delver, Elephant. There are more of them, just look it up.
(If I have the choice, I prefer interesting or new ones before old but powerful forms :) )

Be aware that many of these forms do use manufactered weapons, so have a good weapon handy. (My weapon of choice is a Surestriking Scimitar +1 of Frost, beeing upped to Holy version soon :) )

Mustrum Ridcully
 

Re: Shifter powers

kristov said:
So do you basically just get all of the powers/feats/skills of whatever you turn into without any real limitations as a shifter?

So if im a troll, i get regeneration, 2 claws, a bite and a rend attack?

If im a devil or somethign do i get weapon immunities, spell immunities, spell resistance, and innate powers as usual?

THanks,

Chris

Check your email for a list of useful forms for GWS :D
 

Is it the same is it is always posted in these Shifter Threads? :)

It is definately useful, but it takes some of the fun of being a shifter - figuring the best creatures for your purposes on your own :)

Anyway, some further advices:

Get Wildining Clasps and wild shape armor (it is expensive, but worth the money).
Wilding Clasps can allow you to use your Belt of Giant Strength (very good way to make a combat form more dangerous), Cloak of Elvenkind, Boots of Striding and Springing or whatever you own.

The Wild Shape Armor is pratically a must if you are in animal form, because the Armor Class of Animals sucks.
It becomes even more awesome if you take, as example, the shape of a planetar (this is my current "powergamer`s wet dream" shape :) ) - AC 32 before taking armor, shield, deflection, haste and other things into account...


Mustrum Ridcully
 

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
It is unclear if the HD limit for forms still applies for Druid/Shifters(meaning you may never take forms that have more HD than you). I decided to take the HD limit - it forces me to be more creative with forms, instead of simply taking the most powerful one...

I cant find the HD limit rule anywhere, in the players handbook or the MOTW. It appears that the limitation is only in the size, and type, for the druid anyway. Since Wildshape follows the polymorph other.... If this isnt the case, could someone show me otherwise?

Thanks alot.
 

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