Druid question

[sithramir]

Ok. I'm playing a druid for the first time ever. I'm really confused as to EXACTLY what happens and what he gains when he wildshapes.

The fact that its like polymorph and thats like alter self, etc just makes it very hard bookkeeping wise to get it exact. Since its something i'll be doing very often I'd like to get it down exact. (Plus when I DM I might actually use them now since i never really used them for combat much before)

Heres an example.

Alak (Human Druid 5)
Str 14
Dex 13
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 13
Speed 30'
BAB +3 (Cudgel MW +6 for 1d6+2)
Fort 6(4 +2 con)
Ref 2 (1 +1 dex)
Will 7 (4 +3wis)

AC 13 (10 + 1 dex +2 leather)
HP 40 (30 +10 from con)

Say he wants to change into a fighting form. Lets just choose a bear for now. What will his stats for fighting be then?

What about the = to his HD problem. The bear is 3HD so I can turn into a upped 5HD bear right? Or what?

BEAR, BLACK
Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 3d8+6 (19 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 13 (+1 Dex, +2 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+6
Attack: Claw +6 melee (1d4+4)
Full Attack: 2 claws +6 melee (1d4+4) and bite +1 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +4, Will +2
Abilities: Str 19, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills: Climb +4, Listen +4, Spot +4, Swim +8
Feats: Endurance, Run
Environment: Temperate forests
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 2
Advancement: 4–5 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: —
The black bear is a forest-dwelling omnivore that usually is not dangerous unless an interloper threatens its cubs or food supply.
Black bears can be pure black, blond, or cinnamon in color and are rarely more than 5 feet long.
Combat
Black bears rip prey with their claws and teeth.
Skills: A black bear has a +4 racial bonus on Swim checks


Thanks a TON!

 

[Dinkeldog]

Moving this to the rules forum.

 

[Mahali]

It's not like Polymorph anymore.
In 3.0 you get the Str, Con (no change in HP), and Dex stats of the animal and the attack routine regardless of your BAB.

You'd have 2 claws, 1 bite at your BAB+str
2 claws +7; bite +2 same damage as the bear.

 

[Argent Silvermage]

It's not like Polymorph anymore.
In 3.0 you get the Str, Con (no change in HP), and Dex stats of the animal and the attack routine regardless of your BAB.

You'd have 2 claws, 1 bite at your BAB+str
2 claws +7; bite +2 same damage as the bear.

We're talking 3.5 and it is just like polymorph.
you get the physical stats of the creature/ no change in HP due to new con/ the exceptional movements and attacks of the animal but none of the other abilities except to breath water or hold breath for long periods. it sort of sucks but not too bad.

 

[youspoonybard]

You'd become a bear and get claw/claw/bite.

Your physical stats are the bears. Your mental stats are your own.

You'd get your new speed. You get any racial bonus feats/skills.

Any particular questions?

 

[sithramir]

I played last night with it. I was really just worried that I didn't get the claw/claw/bite.


But basically I changed str/dex/con and added natural armor (with new dex bonus) for ac. Then did claw/claw/bite with my BAB Plus his str attacks and -5 for the bite since he didn't have multiattack.

Seems right. I also didn't really know for sure about feats. I guess none of them are racial so I don't get them.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I think it's still unclear as to whether your hitpoints change from the change in con or not.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

It's pretty confusing having to follow the chain, but Wildshape is like Polymorph except as noted (PHB 37), and Polymorph is like Alter Self except as noted (PHB 263).

Based on this, I think some things raised in the thread become a bit clearer. For instance, you retain your normal hp, not adjusted on the basis of your new Con score. This is explained in the Alter Self spell description and is not overriden by anything in the Polymorph or Wildshape descriptions.

To calculate attack bonuses, you subtract the creature's base attack bonus (BAB) from its attack bonuses and add your own BAB back in. For example, a Black Bear has a BAB of +2 and attacks at +6 (+6/+1 when making a full attack). Subtract the BAB out and you get +4 or +4/-1. If you are a level 5 Druid you have a BAB of +3, so adding that back in you get +7 or +7/+2. If the creature has Multiattack, you get it too, but you don't really need to think about it, because whatever you see in the animal's stat block is what you get, minus its BAB, plus your own.

What's NOT clear to me is whether you gain the ability to breathe water or hold your breath for long periods, as Argent claims. I can't find anything of the sort in the books, but I might be missing it and would appreciate a cite. It would be a travesty if a druid couldn't turn into a shark because he'd drown in water. I would assume, by the way, that in exchange for waterbreathing as an aquatic animal, you would lose your ability to breathe air until you change back and would "drown" if removed from water unless you did change back.

Also not clear to me is whether you can freely take the form of animals (or in the case of a standard Polymorph, other creatures) who are more advanced, as Sithramir asked. I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't be able to take the form of a more advanced creature so long as the HD of the advanced creature neither exceeds your Druid level nor bumps the creature into a size category beyond your ability, but I'd be interested to hear other opinions.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Also not clear to me is whether you can freely take the form of animals (or in the case of a standard Polymorph, other creatures) who are more advanced, as Sithramir asked. I can't think of any reason why you shouldn't be able to take the form of a more advanced creature so long as the HD of the advanced creature neither exceeds your Druid level nor bumps the creature into a size category beyond your ability, but I'd be interested to hear other opinions.

Well, 3.5 eliminates most of the reason to use advanced animals, since the attacks are BAB+str, something that wasn't exactly true with 1st print 3.0 PHBs. However I've allowed some flex in my games in that a druid can assume the minimum HD variation of any size allowed by the creature. Meaning that if a bear can be Medium (3-7HD) or Large (8-12HD) (no books, making this up) they can choose to be a 3HD medium bear or an 8HD large bear. Naturally they must be able to Wildshape to that sizeclass and have enough HD.

That gives some degree of advancement without mind numbing amounts of number crunching because all I as a GM have to do is use the size change rules to modify the base creature's stats.

 

[Wippit Guud]

Rocs are animals.
I fear lvl 18 druids...