Druid/shape shifting question

[jgsugden]

FYI: I sent an email to custserv@wizards. I don't trust them to give great advice, but they are the official channel right now.

I wrote:

The 3.0 version of polymorph specified that hit points did not change when polymorph was used.

The 3.5 version lacks this key phrase, though it does say that polymorph
acts as alter self except where specified in the polymorph spell.

Alter self does not change physical ability scores, but polymorph does.

Two different 'camps' have arisen regarding the above rules.

Camp #1: Polymorph incorporates the alter self rule that fixes hit points.
Polymorph therefor does not change your hit points when your constitution
changes. This approach results in confusion when a polymorphed creature
takes constitution damage or gains a constitution bonus: does this change to
constitution have an effect on the hit points of the target when the hit
points of the target are no longer tied to their current constitution?

Camp #2: Bonus hit points are a product of your constitution modifier. When
your constitution changes, you gain or lose hit points according to the
change in your constitution modifer. The alter self stipulation that hit
points do not change does not apply because either: 1.) it was meant to
indicate that your hit points are not altered to reflect the base hit points
of the form selected, or 2.) it was a redundant reminder that constitution
does not change.

They responded:

I know that this is one thing that R&D is planning to deal with in the form of
future online support. Polymorphing and shape changing have created a number of
new confusions. For now, I don't have the official answer, but until errata is
released, I would side with camp 1.

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[Hypersmurf]

Heh.

The trend at the moment seems to be for custserv to say the opposite of the Sage

-Hyp.

 

[FrankTrollman]

Heh.

The trend at the moment seems to be for custserv to say the opposite of the Sage

-Hyp.

Not quite - I've also seen Custserv rule that:

1> The "base" in hit points on Alter Self was implied and that Polymorph changed hit points.

and

2> They simply did not know and refused even to speculate.

So the current trend is for Custserv to be horribly confused by a horribly written spell - not necessarily for them to agree or disagree with Skip.

Not that I generally put all that much faith in Skip. Recall that on the WotC boards over a thousand posts were generated by the "Skip vs. Frank" threads in which people argued back and forth whether I was right or Skip was over various topics (I didn't atually start any of those threads, BTW). So I don't exactly have a huge track record of agreeing with the man all the time.

-Frank

 

[Hypersmurf]

So I don't exactly have a huge track record of agreeing with the man all the time.

I have no problem with his rulings... when they follow the rules

Which, to be fair, is a lot of the time.

... just not all of it.

-Hyp.

 

[Celtavian]

re

I think they should allow hit points to be adjusted by the new Con score. If the person obtains the physical strength of the race, then they should obtain the physical robustness of the race. The spell can easily be rewritten, but someone down at WotC is too worried about over-powering the spell. Its a tough spell. Some spells are impossible to bring in line without making them relatively useless and boring.

 

[GodPhoenix]

Hey, jgsugden ...or anyone who might know... what are the chances that custserv will produce a response that includes specific examples? I often find well explained examples make extrapolation to odd/uncommon situations much easier.

 

[FrankTrollman]

what are the chances that custserv will produce a response that includes specific examples? I often find well explained examples make extrapolation to odd/uncommon situations much easier.

100%. If you send enough questions which provide a direct set-up and ask for a specific example of how it will go down you will probably get a couple.

Unfortunately, since the wording is murky you are going to get about 3 different and conflictory examples of how that works.

But if you get one you like - go you!

-Frank