D&D 5E (2014) Druid WILD SHAPE !

[Nemio]

Maybe a stupid question but what happens with your clothes when you shapeshift?

 

[PnPgamer]

You can choose for them to drop to ground, meld with form or keep wearing them if the form is capable of so. This is my guess as this is the rules regarding equipment and wild shape.

 

[Flamestrike]

While moon druid shifting to bear/dire wolf is really strong at level 2-3, it very quickly becomes lackluster.

It's too strong. Way too strong. A 108hp buffer every short rest at 2nd level is borderline broken. It invalidates the fighter, and outclasses every other class feature gained at that level by the other classes. It makes encounter balance really wonky too.

The fighter only really catches up to the Druid at 11th level and at that stage the Druid has 216 bonus hit points per short rest from elemental form.

And I don't even want to get into the moon Druids capstone at 20th that makes him all but invincible.

I've found that simply ruling the Druid to retain his own HP and HD in wild shape forms removes this unbalance. Granting the Druid temporary HP equal to 2 times his Druid level grants a nice buffer while in animal form, and is approximately on the same level of power as other class features (lay on hands, second wind etc) gained at that level by other classes.

It also avoids 'onion Druid' cheese.

The low AC of animal forms is only an issue at 2nd level (when the Druid gains the ability). He still gets 4 temp Hit points, 2 attacks a round in bear form doing a ton of damage at the same attack bonus as the Fighter (if not higher). He can also burn slots as bonus actions to heal while in wild shape remember. That plus the temp HP makes him still be a damage machine and be able to soak as much punishment as the fighter - if not more.

At 3rd level, he gets bark skin, so the AC problem is ameliorated.

It's balanced the classes quite well. Even with the house rule, moon Druids are still scary - just not wildly OP.

Also moon Druid 2/ barbarian 1 can soak about 260 hit points per short rest thanks to Rage and wild shape hit points. That's an obnoxious amount of damage to plan for and it trivialises most encounters of that CR. As a DM you can plan for it by upping the CR of your encounters, but then you face a TPK if the Druid goes down.

Finally, all this house rule does is make the Druid about equal to the Fighter for most of his career; maybe a little behind in terms of raw DPR and feats/ manoeuvres in battles. Considering the versatility of wild shape and the fact the moon Druid is sitting on a full casting chassis, it balances the classes out nicely.

 

[Diamabel]

It's too strong. Way too strong. A 108hp buffer every short rest at 2nd level is borderline broken. It invalidates the fighter, and outclasses every other class feature gained at that level by the other classes. It makes encounter balance really wonky too.

The fighter only really catches up to the Druid at 11th level and at that stage the Druid has 216 bonus hit points per short rest from elemental form.

And I don't even want to get into the moon Druids capstone at 20th that makes him all but invincible.

I've found that simply ruling the Druid to retain his own HP and HD in wild shape forms removes this unbalance. Granting the Druid temporary HP equal to 2 times his Druid level grants a nice buffer while in animal form, and is approximately on the same level of power as other class features (lay on hands, second wind etc) gained at that level by other classes.

It also avoids 'onion Druid' cheese.

The low AC of animal forms is only an issue at 2nd level (when the Druid gains the ability). He still gets 4 temp Hit points, 2 attacks a round in bear form doing a ton of damage at the same attack bonus as the Fighter (if not higher). He can also burn slots as bonus actions to heal while in wild shape remember. That plus the temp HP makes him still be a damage machine and be able to soak as much punishment as the fighter - if not more.

At 3rd level, he gets bark skin, so the AC problem is ameliorated.

It's balanced the classes quite well. Even with the house rule, moon Druids are still scary - just not wildly OP.

Also moon Druid 2/ barbarian 1 can soak about 260 hit points per short rest thanks to Rage and wild shape hit points. That's an obnoxious amount of damage to plan for and it trivialises most encounters of that CR. As a DM you can plan for it by upping the CR of your encounters, but then you face a TPK if the Druid goes down.

Finally, all this house rule does is make the Druid about equal to the Fighter for most of his career; maybe a little behind in terms of raw DPR and feats/ manoeuvres in battles. Considering the versatility of wild shape and the fact the moon Druid is sitting on a full casting chassis, it balances the classes out nicely.

1) The CR 1 Brown Bear (moon druid wildshape from level 1-5) has 34 HP, not 54. The Dire Wolf (Also CR 1) Has 37 HP, and the CR 1 Giant Hyena has 45 HP.

Yes, in the early levels, moon druid wildshape easily outclasses others.. but this drops off very quickly. They are stuck with the same forms until level 6 - and the level 6 (CR2) forms are not much of an upgrade.

2)Elemental wildshape consumes both uses of wildshape.. so 1 elemental shift per short rest. This is only effectively doubled vs. non magical weapons.. but we are talking level 10 here.

Barkskin helps, but don't forget it requires concentration. AC 16 is still not great..a lowly kobold is hitting on a 12, not even counting pack tactics.

In my experience thus far, the druid wildshape is amazing up until around level 5.. currently at level 6, enemies are dropping the druid out of wildshape in 1 round of combat, or just ignoring it entirely. Flying enemies make bears.. well, sad pandas

Wildshape suffers from some other issues.. no casting while wildshaped, no benefit from magic items while wildshaped, and a large lack of scaling/synergy with feats.

Again, I do not disagree that wildshape is out of line early on, I only stated that it tails off as levels get higher.

I think temp HP is a good idea (Though 2x druid level is on the low side, imo... at level 2, that is 1 average kobold hit) I would also consider scaling the beasts other statistics- use the druid's proficiency bonus+the applicable combat stat from the beast, rather than the static value. (ex: level 3 druid, shift to brown bear- str 19. Melee weapon attack 2+4=6)

 

[PnPgamer]

What is an onion druid?

edit: nevermind, googled it.

 

[Khasimir]

Im finding Moon Druids (Bear) really broken in my game.

I had to houserule that Druids retain HD and HP of their natural form when wildshaped and instead gain temp HP = (Druid level x2)

I told my Moon Druid upfront that several things will happen when he Wild Shapes:
1.) If he doesn't disrobe first, shaping into a different form can and will tear clothes/ruin equipment, ala the old Hulk TV show.
2.) If he suddenly shapes without telling his party, they need to roll perception. Failed gives them disadvantage for 1d6 rounds.
3.) If he shapes in front of non party members, they need to roll perception. Failed will cause circumstantial consequences.
4.) If he morphs back to normal form, he'll be naked. If it's during combat, he's likely going to get hit and hit a lot until he gets his armor back on.

My druid is an experienced player, so he understood the message I was sending. He really like to use it for non combat situations. He'll turn into a rat or something and scout ahead.

One cool story, is during the 3rd episode of HoTDQ, the group made it's way into the hatchery. He was in spider form and was the only one who made the perception roll to notice the Roper hanging out in the ceiling (I guess the 18 or so eyes spiders have paid off for him!). He couldn't communicate with the party as a spider, so he sat there gesticulating in an attempt to point out the roper. He got a little frustrated by them not understanding what all of his pointing was about. I couldn't stop laughing.

 

[Flamestrike]

What is an onion druid?

edit: nevermind, googled it.

See how obscene that is, even for a capstone? Effectively 100 bonus hit points per round. 200 if your enemies lack magic weapons.

Under my house rule its only 40 extra hit points each round at that level, allowing creatures of that CR to actually have a chance of defeating the Druid.

Even at level. A GWF fighter in chain mail and a str and con of 16 has an AC of 16, 22 hit points, attacks at +5 doing 2d6+3 re rolling 1s and 2s. He has second wind (an extra 7-8 hp) and action surge once per short rest.

A moon Druid in bear fon at second level (per core) has 68+19 hit points, can burn spells as bonus actions to regenerate on top of that, gets 2 attacks at +6 dealing 2d6+4 damage and 1d8+4 damage, has an AC of 11 and is large size. He also has spells to fall back on.

Making Druids retain HD and HP (while granting temp HP on shifting = to Druid level x2) is a simple fix that balances the Druid against its martial counterparts nicely.

At higher levels the fighter outshines the Druid in melee. When you factor the fact that the Druid is a full casting class underneath, and also factor the versatility and utility of wild shape, it balances the classes perfectly IMO

 

[Klaus]

It's too strong. Way too strong. A 108hp buffer every short rest at 2nd level is borderline broken. It invalidates the fighter, and outclasses every other class feature gained at that level by the other classes. It makes encounter balance really wonky too.

Let's say the Druid 2 goes for the big guns and turns into a Brown Bear (AC 11, 34 hp). A Minotaur Skeleton (a CR 2 monster) needs 5+ to hit, and deals an average of 17 hp with its greataxe (max 28 hp). It is pretty much guaranteed that the Druid will turn back to humanoid form by the end of round 2 (and would be dead by round 3). By the same token, the Druid needs a 7+ to hit the Skeleton, and deals an average 19 points of damage with its multiattack. Now, the druid might burn spell slots to heal, but those are slots he won't use to cast Cure Wounds on allies, or Entangle on multiple foes. Barkskin gets around some of the AC problem, but that's a spell slot that won't be used for Flame Blade (or a higher Cure WOunds). Plus, Barkskin only works for 1 hour per casting, and is a Concentration spell (to which the druid will resist with his beast form's Constitution modifier).

And let's not forget that 5e doesn't assume a short rest after every fight, as 4e did, but rather two short rests throughout the day.

My point is: you *can* build a frontline tank Druid who will be a frightening biting machine. But that will require an expenditure of resources that could be of use elsewhere. It's a playstyle choice, and not every druid will be built that way.

 

[Saeviomagy]

2.) If he suddenly shapes without telling his party, they need to roll perception. Failed gives them disadvantage for 1d6 rounds.

Disadvantage on what?

 

[Khasimir]

Disadvantage on what?

Anything they'll be rolling for, combat or otherwise. The idea being that party members might possibly be thrown off for a very short duration by an unannounced shape changing.