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D&D 3E/3.5 Druidesque 3.5 questions

youspoonybard

First Post
Exactly.

Plus, any Wizard who wants to "duplicate" Wild Shape is using most, if not all, of his spell slots to do so. That arguement doesn't really hold up.
 

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green slime

First Post
IMO, it is idiotic that by the rules, a druid that shapechanges into a bat, or porpoise cannot see in the dark, using the sonar ability of these real life animals. Or the sharks ability to detect faint electrical impulses.

Utterly stupid. YMMV.

It isn't like the setup is so overwhelming, that Druids will be the only logical choice for characters.

No animals yet presented, have fast healing or regeneration.

And scent is in no way a certain thing. Good yes, but not decisive. It doesn't grant the ability to do anything that several low level spells don't already.

Most shapes a Druid can change into preclude the class from its other prime ability: spell casting! Unless you spend one of your precious feat slots on Natural Spell. Which means it is almost required feat expenditure for a Druid.

What is the most overpowering extraordinary ability available? Would it really have been too much to allow all extraordinary abilities of the natural form taken? The game designers didn't think the Elemental form was too powerful at 16th level. Would all extraordinary Plant Traits be too much at 12th? (amongst them immunity to Criticals) I think not.

I think Wild Shape should be differentiated from Polymorph by allowing Extraordinary abilities of the forms allowed. Animals are far more limited in scope than the list available for wizards. Druids are fun characters, but are given the short end of the stick, IMO. Polymorph on the other hand shouldn't grant Special Quality extraordinary abilities.

All IMO, and YMMV, and what not.
 
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green slime

First Post
youspoonybard said:
Exactly.

Plus, any Wizard who wants to "duplicate" Wild Shape is using most, if not all, of his spell slots to do so. That arguement doesn't really hold up.

No.

4 4th level spells is adequate, it handles four serious encounters. And while polymorphed he can still cast spells without having to burn a feat slot, if he chooses his forms wisely. A 12th level Wizard has more than 4 spells.

My point was that the wizard can shift form just as often as the Druid. So the number of times per day a Druid can wild shape is very limited. Thus the number of times per day these special abilities will come to fore is also limited.

Wildshaping has a slight advantage in that it can't be dispelled and lasts longer, but this is weighed up by the fact that the Druid is limited in the forms available (animal, plant and eventually elemental). The Druid also suffers from a lot of hindrances, so saying that he would be getting those extraordinary abilities "for free" is, IMO, incorrect.
 

nharwell

Explorer
Really, wildshape hase been changed just as polymorph was made a combat-only spell (instead of disguise/utility/transportation). 3.5 seems to have an even stronger focus on combat (particularly melee) than 3.0. The druid is a vastly more powerful combatant now, but I agree that much of the flavor is lost.

I also have to disagree with Plane Sailing's comments above about how powerful the animal special qualities are. I'd argue that improved grab, rake, pounce, etc., are all far more powerful than scent, low-light vision and blindsense (recall that blindsense is not nearly as good as blindsight). As for your justification, how do you explain gaining the extraordinary attack forms? By your logic, those shouldn't be usable ....
 

LokiDR

First Post
First, duration. Wildshape at 1 hr/lvl vs polymorph at 1 min/lvl. A lot of the buff spells have been reduced in duration. Wildshape has a well, but it still lasts almost all day. Wildshape can still be used for scouting or travel, polymorph can't.

Next, history. Many should remember the many times that poly and wildshape were changed over the life of 3e. One of the big problems was the difference between "natural weapon" and "extraordinary ability". Depending on who you were listening to, you could not constrict a target if you turned into a large constrictor. Now it is clear what abilities you get and what you do not.

Finally, consistancy. Wildshape is related to polymorph. If one gets changed, the other should be able to be changed in a similar way. Keeping the two as close to possible makes it easier to update both. But they will never errata these abilities again, now that they have them "just right" :rolleyes:
 

Zack2216

First Post
Well, lets take a look at what abilities normal, dire, and legendary animals would get.

Low light vision, scent, blindsight (or blind sense), sprint (though uncommon), ink jet (squids and octopi), and jet (also squids and octopi).

Scent is nifty, and blind sight was replaced with blind sense, which I have heard wasn't that good compared to blindsight.

Plant abilities, which are quite frankly much more powerful, aren't gained until level 12. And I have seen some messed up plants. One of my favorites is the greenvise. Anyway, the abilities given to plants have much more variety and overall potency, as you all know, ranging from the plant type itself (silly power gaming wizards munchkins, type is for the original creature(go trix), to woodsense (almost as good as tremorsence), regeneration (which I am sure was replaced with fast healing, unless they really do want people using shapechange to be immune to everything but clubs and melf's acid arrow).

With the plant wildshape, I can see why they wouldn't allow speacial qualities. I really hope they did something about plants and regeneration (I didn't take a good gander at the monsters in the SRD). Fast healing helps, but didn't they take away heal from druids? Also note, plants don't really get really strong unless you are familiar with above average ones, weird plants from other planes, or the epic mu spore {which, with the new rules, means that even though you will fight one at level 21, you can't become one without shapechange (don't curse me out if you can't, I haven't looked at the new shapechange very well) until level 35, (but by then I would think you would have better things to turn into)} or elder treant, which quite frankly isn't that better, and you have to wait till level 50 to turn into. But hey, thats what nerfed dragon whildshape is for, cuz by then, you can already turn into epic dragons that look to him for tooth picks.

Well, now that I have lost you (we're walking, we're walking), I think that extraordinary qualities should be allowed, but perhaps not immediately. Perhaps when you gain elemental wildshape, you gain "nifty wildshape," or whatever you want to call it. It will let you use all of the extraordinary abilities of any form assumed through wildshape. Heck, if they are giving away supernatuals and spell-likes to elementals (not that they have such a great variety at hand), they should atleast give all EX to your other forms. It might be worth a feat, but only a couple plant forms have the strength to back up that fast heal everyone wants to keep away from our beloved druids, let alone the fast heal...
 

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