Infiniti2000
First Post
The druid's animal companion is specifically "superior", too. There's a direct correlation that the druid's animal companion gets bigger as it gains bonus HD. They are both superior.Len said:
Druids animal companion
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Nyeshet
First Post
This is probably a silly question, but why do you suppose the rules for creature advancement has animals increasing to extraordinary sizes when advanced in HD? Granted, not many animals do (according to the SRD), but that some do at all is a little odd.
Eagles, Hyena, Mantaray (in reverse, actually), Monkey, Octopus, Owl, Porpoise, Rhinoceros, Shark, Snake, Squid, Tiger, Whale, Wolf, and Wolverine are the creatures that increase in size.
Some I can understand (octopus / squid, porpoise / whale, rhinoceros, shark, snake), but others are just odd. Wolves and Tigers increase in size, but (wild) Dogs, Lions, and Leopards do not. Eagles and Owls do but not Hawks or Ravens. What about Monkeys - why are they allowed a size increase when Apes are not? And why do Rhinos increase in size while Elephants and Bison do not? I presume Hyenas are incremented simply because Tigers and Wolves are (despite their major nemesis - the Lion - not increasing in size).
It seems almost random, really. Is it perhaps due to some 2e holdout / issue?
Eagles, Hyena, Mantaray (in reverse, actually), Monkey, Octopus, Owl, Porpoise, Rhinoceros, Shark, Snake, Squid, Tiger, Whale, Wolf, and Wolverine are the creatures that increase in size.
Some I can understand (octopus / squid, porpoise / whale, rhinoceros, shark, snake), but others are just odd. Wolves and Tigers increase in size, but (wild) Dogs, Lions, and Leopards do not. Eagles and Owls do but not Hawks or Ravens. What about Monkeys - why are they allowed a size increase when Apes are not? And why do Rhinos increase in size while Elephants and Bison do not? I presume Hyenas are incremented simply because Tigers and Wolves are (despite their major nemesis - the Lion - not increasing in size).
It seems almost random, really. Is it perhaps due to some 2e holdout / issue?
Nyeshet said:
I assumed it's the difference between increasing size and increasing size categories. Think of a lion as the smallest creature in the Large category, and the largest lions are the largest in the category, but not Huge. A tiger is bigger than a lion, so it isn't surprising that the largest tigers would be Huge. Wolves are medium, but close enough to the top of the category, that larger wolves are Large.
Or maybe I'm assuming too much logic in these decisions.
--Axe
Lord Pendragon
First Post
As I see it, the difference is in how a particular animal becomes "superior" and what that means. I think assuming that the two types of creature improvement are the same, based on the use of the word "superior" is a mistake.Infiniti2000 said:
In the case of Advancing creatures, this is not something that happens as an event during gameplay. No creature ever Advances during gameplay. Advancement is something that takes place during adventure creation, in the hands of the DM. The rules are there for a DM to create a special race of "Mountain Eagles" that are larger and stronger than ordinary eagles. Or "Dreadwolves" that prowl the foothills beneath the Iron Keep. Or perhaps merely to stat out the monstrously large alpha male of a wolf pack in the Forest of A Thousand Tears.
Whatever the reason, the Advancement line in the MMs is there to guide DMs in the process of modifying monsters into "superior" versions of those statted out in the monster books themselves.
Animal Companions, on the other hand, along with Familiars and Special Mounts, are creatures which gain in power because of a mystical bond with a PC master. They grow in power because their masters do, through magic. A 1st-level druid's wolf companion is an ordinary wolf, who becomes "superior" due to his link with the druid. He wasn't a superior wolf before the druid made him an animal companion. Nor will he remain so after the druid releases him. It is the druid's magic that empowers him. As such, he does not suddenly grow to incredible size. He merely becomes stronger, faster, and tougher as outlined in the very specific powers granted to Animal Companions. It's the same with familiars and Special Mounts.
This is how I've always understand it, and the Core Rules don't seem to contradict this, whlie the FAQ even seems to support it. Now, I'm not using the FAQ to prove my point (Heaven forbid,) but merely stating that I feel even more comfortable with my ruling, as there doesn't seem to be any contradiction to it, anywhere.
This has already been stated in a roundabout way, but the way I see the creature advancement in the MM is that you can create a larger and bigger specimin if you want. In other words, as soon as it reaches adult, it has all the better attributes and larger size. It doesn't reach small size, become an adult, then advance and become medium, then advance and become large.
Since the animal that the druid has is assumed to be an adult, then it has already reached its adult stature. You can still add levels, but it doesn't grow. That would be like a PC playing a monster race and then reaching level 11 and growing to the next size category... even though they might already be old aged. It doesn't make sense to me.
Since the animal that the druid has is assumed to be an adult, then it has already reached its adult stature. You can still add levels, but it doesn't grow. That would be like a PC playing a monster race and then reaching level 11 and growing to the next size category... even though they might already be old aged. It doesn't make sense to me.
Infiniti2000
First Post
No, not at all. You claimed that advanced monsters was different than a druid's animal companion specifically because it creates "superior" specimens. I was corroborating Sabathius42's point that the druid's animal companion is also superior. Now, there's a slight difference in some of the wording, but I think the use of the word superior makes it clear that both do the same thing.Len said:There's a direct correlation between Point Blank Shot and Weapon Focus - they both give +1 to hit. Therefore, Weapon Focus gives +1 to damage, even though it's not explicitly stated, because it's like P.B.S.
Right?
Trying to fit this argument into your analogy with PBS and WF is really a nonsequitur. The two reasons why it's a nonsequitur are (1) the descriptions of PBS and WF are not similar, and (2) the rules on those feats are not in contention (not vague) and thus we do not have to resort to reading the descriptions to find out what the rules are to adjudicate them.
This was changed specifically in 3.5, and its a feature not a bug.
The problem druid's had in the past was there animal companions got too big. Hard to take them in a dungeon when your large or huge
So 3.5 gave you the choice. You could keep your smaller companions and make them better but stay small and mobile. Or, you could trade up on a more powerful creature that's also a lot bigger.
So pick your poison and stop complaining
The problem druid's had in the past was there animal companions got too big. Hard to take them in a dungeon when your large or huge
So 3.5 gave you the choice. You could keep your smaller companions and make them better but stay small and mobile. Or, you could trade up on a more powerful creature that's also a lot bigger.
So pick your poison and stop complaining
