D&D 4E Druids in 4E

[Epic Meepo]

Which work of fantasy literature first presented us with the "modern" druid? Did dungeons and Dragons invent it?

As far as I can tell, OD&D invented the "modern" druid.

 

[KingCrab]

Never played it. Not familiar with it.

But let me use 4e speak to address 3e for a moment.

Wildshape is a cool ability. But in combat its fundamentally a Defender type ability, at least in that it turns the druid into a defender type character with a ton of hit points and a good melee attack.

Druidic spellcasting is a mixture of Leader and Controller type powers.

I'd rather split these abilities up into two classes, so that balance reasons don't require watering down one in order to justify giving the class the other. Balance, as far as I can tell, requires weakening wildshape if you give it to a 9 level spellcaster, because a character who's a melee heavy hitter AND a 9 level spellcaster is a bit broken. Or, balance requires weakening the spellcasting if you give it to a wildshaper, for the same reasons. I'd rather get full strength versions of both in two separate classes than a weakened version of either in one class.

I've always felt in 3.5 that druids should have been split up into 3 classes.

1. Just a wildshaper. Give them some powers for levels 1-4 and with wildshape alone they make a pretty effective class. They can tank and fight well and use their wildshape to climb walls, fly, swim, sneak around etc. A powerful class.

2. A summoner class. With feats like augment summoning, ashbound, greenbound, etc. a specialist summoner would be a lot of fun to play. Perhaps let them keep the druid hp (instead of the d4 a wizard who specializes in conjuration would get) and the saves and some skills and this would be a very powerful class on its own.

3. Nature caster. Give the animal companion and druid spell list (without summoning) to a class with a d8 hp and druid saves and you have an effective blaster with meele support (companion) that would be very effective. Also they'd have entangle and other nasty control spells.

The cleric of nature idea is closest to the 3rd class mentioned here together with healing and turning undead instead of an animal companion. The warlock of the fey idea might be anything at this point.

Now, in 4th edition, the question is how can you take these three classes together and keep them balanced?

 

[frankthedm]

And no, 'Cleric of nature' doesn't cut it. They have always been distinct in a 'followers of the old ways' sort of vibe.

Cleric of nature works just fine.

'followers of the old ways' get to have thier repesenatives as messed up by D&D as the Knights templar do.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

However, I'm frankly quite surprised that 'nature' wasn't one of the power sources, and that druid and ranger didn't fall under this category.

ditto

 

[Gloombunny]

However, I'm frankly quite surprised that 'nature' wasn't one of the power sources, and that druid and ranger didn't fall under this category.

I'm hoping (though not expecting) that a nature/feywild-related power source will show up in a later book, and feature druid (or possibly two classes split from the 3e druid), some new talents for rangers who want to branch out from martial, and bard.

I loathe D&D's current take on bards, but a druidish, fey-linked bard could be really cool.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

I'm kind of skeptical of Nature as a power source.

Personally, I was hoping that one of the ways roles would function would be to sort of erase the Wild vs. Dungeon division between the classes:

Old Way:
Ranger=Fighter+Wilderness-Dungeon

Druid=Cleric+Wilderness-Dungeon

New Way:

Ranger=(Divine) Striker perfectly good in either wilderness or dungeon

Druid=(Divine) Controller perfectly good in either wilderness or dungeon

Plus, call me a pantheist if you will but distinguishing between Divine and Nature just seems silly.

Side Note:

I too am super excited about the idea of Fey-Linked Bard.

 

[The Merciful]

Plus, call me a pantheist if you will but distinguishing between Divine and Nature just seems silly.

I agree - there isn't much difference. It would be like giving Warlocks powersource called Infernal or Bards witth Music as their powersource, Rogues being Stealth strikers instad of Martial ones and so on and on. It would defeat the purpose of the powersources to give each class it's own.

 

[neceros]

I agree - there isn't much difference. It would be like giving Warlocks powersource called Infernal or Bards witth Music as their powersource, Rogues being Stealth strikers instad of Martial ones and so on and on. It would defeat the purpose of the powersources to give each class it's own.

I agree to the third power?

Anyhow, Druid's power should come from Divine, as Divine is an entity which is beyond our normal reasoning and control.

Alternatively, Druid should either be:

1. A new class entirely. Whether it be a shape shifter, animal herder or just a tree hugger, this path would suit up just fine.
2. A series of trees or paths that make it different than a normal cleric of wizard (which ever source they derive from.) Mind you that all classes should be following a path or tree, that way it's just a choice that you would need to make, as with all other characters. This way the druid isn't giving up power simply to be a druid, but choosing a calling like everyone else does.

Either case, I hope the druidds are an idea in 4e. It would feel wierd without them.

 

[Li Shenron]

Cleric of nature works just fine.

In concept, maybe yes.

But when you want the "cleric of nature" to:

- have access to a lot of nature-oriented spells
- have access to a lot of elemental spells
- shapeshift into animals (but not monsters)
- have some abilities that relate to feys
- have some abilities that relate to animal and plants
- have skills related to the wilderness

then you already have a major shift from the cleric of (almost) every other faith, which in the majority of cases is a more city-based or civilized-oriented character.

If you design the cleric class so that different faiths result in seriously different clerics, then the cleric of nature is one option, and it can work elegantly.

But if you keep the cleric as generic as it is in 3ed, with the same huge list of spells available to every priest, with every priest being battle-oriented and healers, then when you shoehorn druids into that, you would get a class and a subclass. At that point, it's better to just use a separate class.

Now if they instead design the 4e cleric class so that some faiths have battle-clerics, some have healers, some have scholars, some have summoners, some have poisoning murderers, some have insane disease-spreading filth-loving cultists, and some have druids, then I'm totally fine with that. But I think that this idea at least certainly requires to get rid forever of the idea that "all clerics know all clerical spells by default".

 

[hopeless]

Druids in 4e

I've always liked the idea of druids.

I've never liked the implementation. They're basically two, maybe three classes rolled into one these days.

Were I running things, the unfortunate druids would get sacrificed beneath their own standing stones. From the ashes, I'd build:

1) A class which fits the "sage of the old ways" vibe you get from a druid who mostly casts spells, and maybe fights in combat with a sickle once in a while.
2) A class which shifts into animal shapes, and focuses on this as its core combat technique.

Any shifting the first class would get would be non combat related. For example, instead of casting "fly" like a wizard, the class would transform itself and its allies into birds.

The second class wouldn't get spells. I might give it invocations, though. Magical semi-permanent boosts that synergize with its animal forms. That's just one of the mechanical ways to accomplish that goal, but its one I rather like.

So you'd have a specialised form of cleric more in tune with the druidic faith and their version of a paladin can do all the wild shaping...

Ever watch a show I think its called Dark Knight that has Ivanhoe as the main character?
There's a druid adviser who comes across as like a Mystic Theurge from what I remember seeing, if you have seen this whats your take on it?