Druids suck? vs Shape Change and Polymorph

[Merlion]

In regards to bats and wildshape, i find exalted wildshape in book of exalted deeds lets you put a celestrial templit on the creature your wildshaping into. In addition, you get all ex and supernatural abilitys and this fixes the some of the problems that comes with the wonky rules of wildshape.

Well, trouble is anything that isnt core might be a problem if your dealing with one of those seemingly all to common core-only DMs. Plus, you shouldnt have to take a feat for it. Logically, if you take on the physical form of something, you should gain all of its physical abilities.

 

[Pielorinho]

We use Rich Burlew's rules for Wildshaping and polymorph: they are a bit more complicated at first, but they make a lot more sense and are much better balanced. (I think the sorcerer got the rules for polymorphing bumped up a bit, so that instead of having lots of different spells to learn, it was a single spell that gained additional powers at additional levels, or something like that).

That said, Paul, it might be helpful to look on Shapechange as the druid's ultimate shifting power, the pinnacle of her abilities, the big guns she pulls out only in the most dire of situations. When she doesn't need to expend her most valuable resource--a ninth-level slot--she uses the slightly less powerful, but much cheaper, wildshape ability.

Daniel

 

[nameless]

The other problem with comparing wild shape to Shapechange is that shapechange is the best spell in the game, easily and by far the most powerful offensive and defensive spell at the same time. Comparing anything to shapechange makes that other thing look weak.

That said, wild shape is very useful and something that no other class can really emulate. The duration, and the ability to use natural spell and wild feats really make druids shine.

And spontaneous summon nature's ally isn't too shabby, either.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Merlion, i agree it kindof sucks that you have to be exalted and use a feat to get goodies for wildshape. currently im playing a charicter with that feat so i dont have to worry about it, but i do think polymorph wildshape is silly broken. I wish it would be written with more commen sense and with more game balance

 

[Merlion]

Merlion, i agree it kindof sucks that you have to be exalted and use a feat to get goodies for wildshape. currently im playing a charicter with that feat so i dont have to worry about it, but i do think polymorph wildshape is silly broken. I wish it would be written with more commen sense and with more game balance

The designers seem to have a lot of trouble with shapechanging. And in general, I understand it. But the Druids wildshape should be easy, as its limited to natural, mostly low powered forms.

 

[Thanee]

Thats why what really annoys me is the 3.5 nerfing of the duration and the illogical rule that you can turn into a bat, but not get ecolocation.

Yep, I have house ruled Polymorph (and similar) to grant natural perceptions of a creature (low-light, darkvision, bat's blindsense, and so on).

However, what's wrong with the duration of wildshape? It's 1h/level, that's not short at all.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Merlion]

However, what's wrong with the duration of wildshape? It's 1h/level, that's not short at all.

No its not...thats really a minor thing. If it was me, I wouldnt have changed it at all though.


Mainly, its annoying if one wants, as basically a roleplaying quirk, to stay in some innocous totally not-powerful form (like a raven or a chipmunk or something) all the time. You cant really do that even with an hour per level duration.

 

[Thanee]

The duration was the same in 3.0 (inherited from Polymorph).

I know what you mean, but unlimited duration would be a bit much, I think.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pielorinho]

The designers seem to have a lot of trouble with shapechanging. And in general, I understand it. But the Druids wildshape should be easy, as its limited to natural, mostly low powered forms.

I think the problems occur when you get into plant wildshaping: the shambling mound/shocking hands combination gets ridiculously powerful very quickly. (Or get a shocker lizard for extra fun).

Burlew's rules solve this through a somewhat clunky way: they list every ability, telling which ones transfer and which ones don't. However, the lists are pretty intuitive, so once you've looked them over, it's pretty easy to figure out whether an ability will work.

Daniel

 

[Dimwhit]

The duration was the same in 3.0 (inherited from Polymorph).

I know what you mean, but unlimited duration would be a bit much, I think.

Bye
Thanee

Actually it wasn't. In 3.0, the official Wild Shape was, in the end, the version printed in Masters of the Wild. In that version, Wild Shape had no duration.

I was bummed they gave it a duration in 3.5, but it hasn't affected by Druid much.