DTRPG Says 'Don't criticize us or we'll ban you'

[aramis erak]

I understand it is up on OBS, but I meant that I don't believe they asked permission to put it up because of anything that might have been in the guidelines. Again, I could be wrong here. I don't know what discussions went on between them. But from the outside that statement appeared to go up following concerns about legacy products that were a part of a larger conversation on forums, twitter and facebook. Again my contention here could be incorrect. I am just not aware of anyone who has asked permission to put up content that was 'overly political' for example, because, I think most companies have read that guideline as being intended for extreme political views. There are a lot of RPGs on Drivethru that have poltical messages for example. If any of them have contacted OBS for permission, I would certainly be interested in knowing that. I just am not under the impression that many people are doing so.

I might not be following what you are saying so I apologize if I am missing something. I am only aware of the statement that WOTC put on their legacy products which was the blanket statement covering the concerns some fans had about the older content. Did they put another statement up on the products as well?

ONLY TSR stuff was initially addressed - but they've applied it beyond TSR, and beyond just old stuff.

Also - anything overtly Pro-/Anti-LGBTQA+* is political in the US. More so now than any point in the last 20 years. I'm scared for my daughters.

Note: both my daughters identify on the LGBTQA spectrum. I'm good with that. I'm not good with rights being revoked by SCOTUS.

 

[Bedrockgames]

ONLY TSR stuff was initially addressed - but they've applied it beyond TSR, and beyond just old stuff.

Okay but the question is, was that just something WOTC did voluntarily or was that something they were required to do by OBS (I haven't heard that it was the latter)

 

[Bedrockgames]

Also - anything overtly Pro-/Anti-LGBTQA+* is political in the US. More so now than any point in the last 20 years. I'm scared for my daughters.

Note: both my daughters identify on the LGBTQA spectrum. I'm good with that. I'm not good with rights being revoked by SCOTUS.

I don't think that OBS would treat LBTQ stuff as political, but I think anti-LBTQ stuff would probably get triggered by their rules against homophobic content. But I do think a rule against overtly political content itself is way too broad. There are plenty of issues I have seen publishers address in games, that are political, but in my opinion fair game for a designer to explore in an RPG. Again, I don't think they are applying this overtly political rule as the text is written (I could be wrong, this is one reason I think them releasing a list of what has come down and why would be clarifying). So it may just be an issue with the wording (but if that is the case, I think changing the wording would be a good idea)

Neither your Work, description, nor any promotional material, including blog posts or press releases, may contain racist, homophobic, discriminatory, or other repugnant views; overt political agendas or views; depictions or descriptions of criminal violence against children; rape or other acts of criminal perversion; or other obscene material without the express written permission of OneBookShelf.

 

[Nikosandros]

Okay but the question is, was that just something WOTC did voluntarily or was that something they were required to do by OBS (I haven't heard that it was the latter)

That was purely a WotC initiative, spurred mainly by the controversy about Oriental Adventures and some old modules. OBS had nothing to do with it.

 

[Morrus]

Okay but the question is, was that just something WOTC did voluntarily or was that something they were required to do by OBS (I haven't heard that it was the latter)

I can't imagine OBS being able to require WotC do anything.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I can't imagine OBS being able to require WotC do anything.

I can't either (unless WOTC starting doing something crazy like putting illegal content in their PDFs)

 

[Bedrockgames]

That was purely a WotC initiative, spurred mainly by the controversy about Oriental Adventures and some old modules. OBS had nothing to do with it.

This was my memory as well

 

[Jahydin]

Also, this probably has already been posted here, but this is the OBS clarification on the new guidelines (which provides more clear context in terms of when different guidelines were put into effect):

Well that all sounds entirely reasonable to me. Thanks for posting an update.

And considering they still have LotFP material up despite Raggi's meltdown, I think they mean what they say.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Well that all sounds entirely reasonable to me. Thanks for posting an update.

The one thing I will note is it doesn't fully address some of the concerns people have raised (it clarifies what the new guidelines mean and how they intend to enforce things). And while the other guidelines are older, and it doesn't seem they have enforced them in this way, one of the questions publishers have raised is what kind of content the product guidelines actually prohibit. Raggi's video brings up a couple of these. I think the question of things like 'can you have a racist NPC as a character' is a valid one. Or can you have hags who eat children in your monster chapter? These are content concerns that might impact a lot of products. Just to give a clear example, I am working on a book now and want to include something from folklore about witches (which is that they created a flying ointment from a mixture of ingredients that included baby fat). That is straight out of a horror movie like the witch or out of European and New England folklore. I think it would probably be okay. But I wouldn't want to have my book pulled over it and would at least want to know in advance if that sort of thing is permissible. It isn't essential to the game but that sort of thing has a big impact on tone and atmosphere.

 

[Jahydin]

The one thing I will note is it doesn't fully address some of the concerns people have raised (it clarifies what the new guidelines mean and how they intend to enforce things). And while the other guidelines are older, and it doesn't seem they have enforced them in this way, one of the questions publishers have raised is what kind of content the product guidelines actually prohibit. Raggi's video brings up a couple of these. I think the question of things like 'can you have a racist NPC as a character' is a valid one. Or can you have hags who eat children in your monster chapter? These are content concerns that might impact a lot of products. Just to give a clear example, I am working on a book now and want to include something from folklore about witches (which is that they created a flying ointment from a mixture of ingredients that included baby fat). That is straight out of a horror movie like the witch or out of European and New England folklore. I think it would probably be okay. But I wouldn't want to have my book pulled over it and would at least want to know in advance if that sort of thing is permissible. It isn't essential to the game but that sort of thing has a big impact on tone and atmosphere.

Agree those thing are important, but I don't think they'll be giving out any specifics.

For one, any statement from a company saying you condone products with those things is a bad look.

Second, lots of edgelord creators would use those specifics against you when it came down to needing to delist a product. Imagine giving Varg the exact guidelines he needs to put his racist products on the platform.

Much better to stay vague in both instances.

This puts a lot of power in the hands of Drive-Thru of course, but as you pointed out, they've done a pretty good job of wielding it, so I'm not going to fuss anymore about it until something worthwhile actually gets banned, haha.