Dual Stat Dependency - how bad is it?

[Malin Genie]

Some spellcasting classes (like the Favoured Soul) suffer from dual stat dependency, with different abilities determining 'spells castable' and save DCs.

How much of a disadvantage does this turn out to be in practice? Does anyone have experience running a Favoured Soul (or using another class with DSD?) If one were modifying a spellcasting class to require different stats for spells castable and save DCs, what might be appropriate 'compensation'? A Feat? A couple of Feats? A class ability (like Turn Undead or Familiar, as examples)? More?

(Mods: I'm not really sure if this belongs here or in House Rules - I want an opinion on how an actual rule works in practice, with the aim of using that opinion to help balance a custom class. Feel free to move the thread if appropriate!)

 

[Ogre Mage]

How much it hurts depends on what method the DM uses to create characters.

25 PB -- a terrible and massive handicap.
28 PB or 4d6 drop lowest -- The DSD is definitely going to hurt. Tough, but the character should be able to contribute.
32 PB -- a minor disadvantage.
36+ PB -- nooooo problem.

The short answer is that the higher the power level of the campaign, the less of a disadvantage it is. Assuming an average power level (4d6 drop lowest), I would say the tradeoff hurts enough to be worth at least one major ability or 2-3 average ones. I would consider one bonus feat to be an average ability.

 

[Thanee]

They probably should have done that with all casters (and psionic people) in the first place.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darklone]

Right. That may even have been the solution to the spellcaster multiclass problem... every spellcaster needs two stats for casting, classes with the same attribute stack

 

[Scion]

It is an incredibly large penalty really. Even in a high point buy game it is still a big pain. Buying one high stat and having points left over to get a few decent stats is hard enough, but having to buy 2 high stats just to match the single high stat? It is like spliting str up into two different stats for melee guys.. one for to hit and the other for damage.

As for changing normal casters and what would compensate.. very hard to say. It is a massive hit for some types of classes (say those that want to cast offensively) and may not even matter for others (those that only buff), but it certainly closes out a lot of options.

A normal caster type needs a stat for casting, a good amount of con, possibly even dex, and whatever else.. the change would make the same caster mostly impossible, 2 casting stats needed, and few points left over for the rest.

Pretty harsh change. Very large cost indeed, no matter the point buy really, until you get up to insane amounts (something like 60+ points or some other crazyness)

 

[RigaMortus]

I mildly disagree. It's certainly not as bad as playing a Monk or Paladin where 4 out of 6 stats need (re: should) to be good.

 

[Nail]

I also disagree. A cleric, for example, already needs high Cha and Wis.....and then Con and Dex, if possible.

Many, many classes and PrCs require 2 or more high stats. really, only the Wizard and (arguably) the Sorcerer get off the hook. Druids and Bards sure don't.

 

[Darklone]

A cleric needs DEX? Most clerics I know do fine with good str, con, wis and cha.

 

[Scion]

well, I disagree with all of your disagreeings

The caster types with d4 hd need a good con. If you toss in having to have a good casting stat (and it must be good, lower means that saves are made just that much more often, and you get fewer bonus spells, and you cast lower level max spells, and..). Along with a good dex being generally needed as well.

So, tossing in yet another stat that is needed just hurts. It puts the caster types up there needing 4 stats as well, and needing four stats just to good at the class you are is some bad designing for the most part.

Fighter type? needs str or dex to be high, needs con, and has to have at least a few points in the other stats. So they are only at really 2 needed, with a couple of lower ones.

Casters currently (wizard/sorc) are at casting stat high, needs con, and has to have a few points in others.

So even.

Placing another stat that is required to be high to use most of their ability.. well.. ouch.

Major drawback.