Dual weapon fighting & Double attack

[agassparkle]

Dual weapon fighting is only available for ranger class ? Or any melee class can do it ?

And for double attack is it available for PC ? or just monsters ? If PC can use it how ?

Thanks in advance

 

[Grabuto138]

Your powers define how you can attack. Most anyone can wield two weapons. To use two weapons in an attack you must have a power that explicitily allows you to use two weapons. Off the top of my head rangers, barbarians and fighters can do this. There may be more, and I am sure someone else will jump in if that is the case.

There are feats that give you benefits with two weapons. These work even if you are not using a power that explicitily allows a double attack. You are wielding them though you are not necessarily attacking with them using that power. But you cannot, for example, make two basic attacks because you are using two weapons.

Basically, read the power description and follow the directions. Don't extrapolate any further with two weapons. And drop any bagge you may be holding from previous editions.

 

[DracoSuave]

Pretty much what he said, and each class uses two weapons differently.

Rangers tend to have two attacks at the same target, attempting to pile as many damage bonuses as possible that apply to both attacks.

Tempest Fighters spread thier attacks out, trying to mark multiple foes at the same time.

Whirling Barbarians also spread their damage out, but they can take advantage of the accuracy of a main hand weapon, with the power of a beefy offhand. So they can attack an easy target with their bastard sword, and if they hit, the soldier will automatically be receiving the brunt of their less accurate, but more damaging waraxe.

 

[RangerWickett]

Any other class can carry two weapons, but has no ability to use both weapons in the same attack. It's only really useful if the weapons have different magical properties, or if you want to try something clever like having a whip and a sword. Even then, the game hates when you try to be clever, so it's mathematically inferior to just smashing things with your sword turn after turn.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Any other class can carry two weapons, but has no ability to use both weapons in the same attack. It's only really useful if the weapons have different magical properties, or if you want to try something clever like having a whip and a sword. Even then, the game hates when you try to be clever, so it's mathematically inferior to just smashing things with your sword turn after turn.

I think that's more group- and DM- dependent than universally true about the game.

By the book, maybe, but for groups that love to explore the many moods of page 42... not so much.

 

[RangerWickett]

The system could still do a better job not actively discouraging multiple weapon usage. Unless you use inherent bonuses and give everyone a free Master of Arms feat, it's usually a terrible option to do anything but focus on particular type of attack. And since the rules do define what your attack bonus is when you use a different weapon, it's hard for all gamers to just shrug and say, "Eh, just use your full attack bonus."

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

Yeah, to that I will agree. I think there were a lot of knee-jerk reactions to some of the imbalances and problems of previous editions when 4e first came out. Lots of things were deliberately made weak or hard to get - dual wielding, flight, swiss army casters, polymorph, etc, all fell into this camp, and we're only just starting to see that trend rebound.

I don't blame them for doing it, and I think we will eventually settle into a happy medium, though whether that's in this edition or the next is anyone's guess.

The problem is, multiattacking is still basically OP compared to doing Big W damage, especially at higher levels, so it still calls for caution with respect to design, going forward.

 

[DracoSuave]

Lots of things were deliberately made weak or hard to get - dual wielding

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.....



....oh... you're serious.


I'll start believing this when Twin-Strike actually becomes anything but the best striker attack in the game.


As for the rest of it... swiss army casting is accomplished with a single feat anyone can take. Polymorphing in a positive sense is made more precise and defined with eahc power, but a general 'turn into everything' spell isn't likely to happen without making an entire class around doing it.

And flight's easily available, just not at level 5.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.....



....oh... you're serious.


I'll start believing this when Twin-Strike actually becomes anything but the best striker attack in the game.

This was the 'hard to get' part. At launch you had two choices for dual wielding - Ranger or Dilettante. And Dilettante was per-encounter until PH2. It wasn't until later when Fighters got their option. 'Weaker' referred to other things, obviously, and it was being compared to 3.x where you didn't lose your Str mod when doing so. In the context of 4e it obviously needs to be nerfed a little.

As for the rest of it... swiss army casting is accomplished with a single feat anyone can take. Polymorphing in a positive sense is made more precise and defined with eahc power, but a general 'turn into everything' spell isn't likely to happen without making an entire class around doing it.

And flight's easily available, just not at level 5.

Yes, but there is no more CoDzilla or Godwizards. That was my point.

And yeah, flight got put in its place.

 

[DracoSuave]

It had an entire class built around it in a game of eight classes. Calling it 'hard to get' is like saying 'sword and board' or 'healing magic' or 'backstabber' are hard to get.

It's not hard-to-get if 1/8 of the game at release was built around it.