Duck Season, Wabbit Season, Actually its...

[Werewolf_26]

...Rules Lawyer Season, at least for the playing group that I joined to play (instead of DM all the time). They have had several rather funny arguements for several things, which through using the rules (and thankfully the SRD, saves me typing time), I’ve been able to quickly show them the rules that they are quoting and end all debates as quickly as possible without slowing the game down anymore than usual (which is the time they bring the debates up).

However, there is something that I’m not certain about how we should handle things. So, in a quest to smooth out the one game I actually get to play (rather than sit and discuss rules with faulty rules lawyers), I’d like to ask a question of ya’ll.

One of the fighters in the group has a Spell Storing weapon. The DMG +1 adjustment. I know that it specifically says 1 spell of up to 3rd level (which up until this point we were using it like the Greater Spell storing adjustment, allowing 3 total levels of spells). Which way we’ll continue using it will be up to them to decide, but my question is more related to the spells the sword casts.

My spell caster is a powerful (relatively speaking) necromancer and one of the spells I would usually charge the sword with was Chill Touch. Chill Touch cast by me (which is what the sword is casting) lasts for 7 rounds (7 touches). When the spell is cast by the sword, would you think that the Chill Touch Spell would last for 7 hits (which seems to make sense), or just 1 shot?

I thank you all for your aid and knowledge.

Werewolf_26

 

[Crothian]

I'd use the caster level of the person who casts the spell into the sword. So, if you are 7th level and cast chill touch into it to store, it would last 7 rounds, but if a 1st level characters did this it would only last one round.

 

[mkletch]

Since it is a spell from an item, it should use the minimum caster level for a spell of that level. Otherwise you could stuff 10-die fireballs in it (for a noble salamander, that would be pretty cool).

-Fletch!

 

[The Souljourner]

mkletch - that's not necessarily true. In fact, it's *only* true of "standard" magic items from the DMG. You can easily have a potion of cure light wounds as cast by a 30th level caster... it just would be unduly expensive to create.

There's no restriction on items making them cast at the lowest level possible, it just happens to be the way they created all the items in the DMG.

So, the spell stored in the sword, unless spell storing specifically states it changes the spell, would be cast just as if the original caster cast it, in this case, at level 7.

-The Souljourner

 

[0-hr]

Though you can up the caster level on an item you create, keep in mind that the saving throw for the spell will automatically decrease to the minimum possible. Even if a super genious wizard with SpellFocus:Evocation makes a Wand of Fireballs at 10th caster level, it will only require a Ref(14) save.

 

[mkletch]

mkletch - that's not necessarily true. In fact, it's *only* true of "standard" magic items from the DMG. You can easily have a potion of cure light wounds as cast by a 30th level caster... it just would be unduly expensive to create.

No, it is true of any item that does not specifically state a different caster level. That is the standard, not the other way around, and it applies in general to any item found, unless the DM says otherwise. If players want to do otherwise, it is their money/XP and their responsibility for bookkeeping.

There's no restriction on items making them cast at the lowest level possible, it just happens to be the way they created all the items in the DMG.

There is no restriction, but it is the default. THe only way to raise the saving throw DC is to heighten the spell. Try this:

From the SRD, Magic Items
SAVING THROWS AGAINST MAGIC ITEM POWERS

Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is always 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability bonus of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell. Another way to figure this number is to multiply the spell’s level by 1.5 and add 10 to the result.

Most item descriptions give saving throw DCs for various effects, particularly when the effect has no exact spell equivalent (making its level otherwise difficult to determine quickly).

It doesn't get any clearer than that. Spell effect in item, it happens at minimum caster level unless otherwise specified. It is not otherwise specified in the description of the Spell Storing weapon ability:

From the SRD, Magic Items (Weapons)
Spell Storing

A spell-storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This ability is a special exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Inflict serious wounds, contagion, blindness, and hold person are all common choices for the stored spell. Once the spell has been cast, the weapon is empty of spells, and a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wearer the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell-storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already.

Caster Level: 8th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Market Price: +1 bonus.

It is the same for a ring of spell storing. Minimum DC. 0-level spell is DC 10, 1st level spell is DC 11, 2nd level spell is DC 13, and a 3rd level spell is DC 14.

So, the spell stored in the sword, unless spell storing specifically states it changes the spell, would be cast just as if the original caster cast it, in this case, at level 7.

Doesn't work that way. It is minimum, unless otherwise stated, not the other way around. Just read the rule.

If you want a rechargable quickened scroll with super-save-DCs that outstrip any other item, then you have unrealistic (or unfantastic, as the case may be) expectations. That would be a mega-munchkin item. Yes, the Wiz20/Red Wizard20 puts a Vampiric Touch in the sword, and the save DC is somewhere around 40. That's balanced.

-Fletch!

 

[Stalker0]

mk, there not talking about the save DC, there talking about the caster level.

Basically that a 7th level chill touch could be used multiple times in the sword, not that it would have a powerful spell dc.

Hmm, just using the spell storing quote, I would say only allow it one time. Basically, the spell should have a casting time of 1 action. Also, it says that once the spell is cast, the sword is empty and is ready to be refilled.

While that's not solid, the two of them together make my suspect the spirit of the rules is to have it used once and then removed. But again, you could interpret it either way. I would say though, that the caster level would still be 7th level.

 

[Artoomis]

From the SRD, Magic Items (Weapons)
Spell Storing

A spell-storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 action.) Any time the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This ability is a special exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Inflict serious wounds, contagion, blindness, and hold person are all common choices for the stored spell. Once the spell has been cast, the weapon is empty of spells, and a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wearer the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell-storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already.

Caster Level: 8th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Market Price: +1 bonus.

Chill Touch normally allows one melee touch attack per level, however, I don't think you can get more than one round out of it - that would imply you could use it one more than one target as well, which seems pretty clearly not within its powers. I think that once the weapon is "empty of spells" then it's empty - it no longer is holding a "Chill Touch," for example. This same logic applies to the normal "holding" of touch attack spells - I'd say that does not apply either - after all, it only works when you strike a creature, so the "charge" is used up right away.

 

[Crothian]

Actually, after reading that it sound like chill touch would be cast on your opponent, where you'd want it cast on you.

 

[Artoomis]

Actually, after reading that it sound like chill touch would be cast on your opponent, where you'd want it cast on you.

No, if it was cast on you it would hurt. It's range is "Touch." It's just that it allow multiple attacks, unlike most other "Touch" spells. The language of a Spell Storing sword would seem to indicate that it should only apply to one attack, though.

There's room for a more generous interpretation, of course, but that's just a tad abusive, methinks.