D&D General Dumb Idea: Hit Points As Ablative Plot Armor That Doesn't Regenerate

[aco175]

I had not considered the idea of folks just retiring to avoid their ultimate fate. That feels like cheating?

Also need to consider a player who wants to change characters or when a friend wants to join for a night and the PCs are 5th level. Would you start off at the rest of the party's average HP or just let them be like monsters and have normal HP.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I picked 1000 HP out of a hat, so let's do some math. Where would the number have to be to achieve the desired result.

Hit point increases are regular, so that helps. And CR is pretty much exclusively based on damage output.

So, to make things easy, let's assume that on average a character should lose half their hit points in any given Hard fight. And we need 5 hard fights to level. Further, let's use a d8+2 HD as a rough average with no increases based on ASIs.

That means:
Level 1: HP = 12. (12x5)/2 = 30 HP lost
Level 2: HP = 18.5. (18.5x5)/2 = 46 HP lost
Level 3: HP = 25. (25x5)/2 = 63 HP lost
Level 4: HP = 31.5. (31.5x5)/2 = 79 HP lost
Level 5: HP = 38. (38x5)/2 = 95 HP lost
Level 6: HP = 44.5 (44.5x5)/2 = 111 HP lost
Level 7: HP = 51. (51x5)/2 = 128 HP lost
Level 8: HP = 57.5. (57.5x5)/2 = 144 HP lost
Level 9: HP = 64. (64x5)/2 = 160 HP lost
Level 10: HP = 70.5. (70.5x5)/2 = 176 HP Lost
Level 11: HP = 77. (77x5)/2 = 193 HP lost.
Total* HP Lost = 1225
* I stopped at level 11 because that is where "most" campaigns seem to end.

So those folks acting like 1000 HP is way to high are underestimating the amount of damage PCs take over time, I think.

One thing i would do is still have a "threshold" for being knocked out of the fight -- not so much to curb PC power, but to protect them from burning through a much bigger chunk of their "Plot Armor" if things go poorly (because dice are dice).

I could imagine having normal hit points. But a limited amount of hit dice.

Maybe you get 4 hit die per level each level. That's it.

4 at level 1
8 at level 2 (12 summed up)
12 at level 3 (24 summed up)
16 at level 4 (40 summed up)

So whenever you take a long rest, you lose 1hit die per level from this pool, no matter if you spent them or not during the day.
Once it is replenished, you only regain your total HP each night.

This will prevent everyone from long resting willy nilly.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Also need to consider a player who wants to change characters or when a friend wants to join for a night and the PCs are 5th level. Would you start off at the rest of the party's average HP or just let them be like monsters and have normal HP.

That’s what random charts are for! A chart of life events that whittle down your HP. J/k.

This is a consideration because the idea works best if you start at first level.

Random thoughts about the idea as a whole:

To me, as long as you have a way of dropping unconscious, I feel like it could work. As long as you can be dropped, you won’t have the ‘invincible character’ problem.

The biggest issue I see is calculating all that damage from however many hp would be annoying bookkeeping.

I liked the idea of the 9 lives rather than a huge pool of points.

But I also like the idea of spending a finite resource to avoid negative consequences in the short term but it puts you closer to death.

Failed a save? Spend some points
Need to heal some damage? Spend some points
Failed a skill check? Spend some points

I also liked the idea of having that number of points be based on level and have it refresh every time you level up. I don’t remember who suggested that. So instead of 1000 at first level, you have 100. At 2nd, you get an additional 200 on top of whatever you have left.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

I had not considered the idea of folks just retiring to avoid their ultimate fate. That feels like cheating?

It’s irrelevant. Look at the current Hit Point system: when a second level adventurer retires with 15HP, does it mean they are immortal because their Hit Points never drop to 0?

No. Instead they live to a ripe old age running a tavern and die of natural causes.

 

[TiQuinn]

I actually think this could work for a campaign in which characters have a set objective and ample time with which the HP pool could run out but it gets dicey towards the end, and you have a chance of underestimating the length of the campaign and your own encounter’s deadliness.

It does mean the characters are essentially superheroes at the beginning on the campaign and encounters early on have be designed with that in mind - the BBEG for a given level/part of the adventure may just be cannon fodder. It also means that PCs can just brute force some encounters. If an encounter involves a capture the flag type objective, the PCs can just rush the objective without real fear of not capturing the flag. It could mean that certain encounters don’t play out the way they may be conceived - just something to consider.

Where it may become an issue is the later part of a campaign. How can you as the DM know how much damage potential your encounters can cause versus how much storyline / how many levels are left in your game? Ideally, you want the players to start feeling the pinch of the hard cap on hit points as they are getting to the end of a campaign. Adventures tend to be designed that the BBEG can put out a lot of damage against a party that has plenty of resources including HP. But what if they’re down to 5% of their total HP and the last few encounters are capable of doing 100 points of damage in a round? My guess is you can’t play most published campaigns without dialing back and recalculating how difficult the late stage encounters are.

Case in point: Dungeon of the Mad Mage. This model would make the PCs feel godlike in the early levels. But as time goes on they’re fighting Liches, Beholders, multiple dragons, multiple high level spellcasters, mind flayers, etc. Each level towards the end can potentially involve several hundred points of HP damage output because it’s built with the idea of HP recovery.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I also concur that the idea of having "9 lives" or "heroic comeback opportunity" (omg! he fell off a cliff! well I caught a tree branch actually and slowly got back up!) is mechanically easier to follow than the kilohp. It could pair with a very lethal system if the combat system is deadlier than D&D, like RQ's.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Your 1st level character would become reckless. "I behead the king and claim the crown, and if any guard in the throneroom says anything, I'll kill them all". Hey, I am 500 HP left.

I don’t find this argument very compelling. A 15th level barbarian (who probably has around 300hp) can already do this and is much more dangerous than a first level character. What prevents most players from doing this?

I have yet to play in a game where the players gamed the system and said, “I have 300 hp, I’m going to go behead the king because I now have lots of hit points. Who’s going to stop me?”

 

[GrimCo]

I had not considered the idea of folks just retiring to avoid their ultimate fate. That feels like cheating?

Why? It's not that uncommon concept. It like people who sell their company very young, get 8 digit payday and just retire to enjoy life. Same situation. Adventurers get to skip part of grinding trough low level threats and go straight to big bad one, kill it, become legends of the kingdom and retire at the peak of their glory.

But I don’t think this would make for very good play patterns, as it would make characters that should feel in over their heads invincible and make characters that should feel like powerful heroes feel the need to minimize any possible risk of harm.

Those who have most also have most to loose. When you don't anything to loose, you can play mad offense. When you have fame, fortune etc, you play smart defense to keep it.

 

[GrimCo]

I have yet to play in a game where the players gamed the system and said, “I have 300 hp, I’m going to go behead the king because I now have lots of hit points. Who’s going to stop me?”

Didn't play many campaigns with evil or morally very dark grey PCs i guess. Seen it happen few times, as low as level 10-11.

 

[TiQuinn]

Why? It's not that uncommon concept. It like people who sell their company very young, get 8 digit payday and just retire to enjoy life. Same situation. Adventurers get to skip part of grinding trough low level threats and go straight to big bad one, kill it, become legends of the kingdom and retire at the peak of their glory.

I don’t think that’d work either from the standpoint of a modern D&D campaign. Most campaigns do not start with the assumption that the PCs know exactly where the BBEG is. They usually have to find them, or work their way to them. Curse of Strahd may allow that, but consider Tomb of Annihilation…you still got to get to the Tomb.