Shadowdancer
First Post
The Fading Suns game setting always had a Dune-esque feel to me.
Dune is one of my Top 10 all-time books, any genre.
Dune is one of my Top 10 all-time books, any genre.
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Dune
- Thread starter Tinker Gnome
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Tinker Gnome
Adventurer
Well, it seems like a pretty good book. Thanks everybody. 
*Gives everybody a cookie*
*Gives everybody a cookie*
Tsyr
Explorer
Fading Suns is VERY Dune-ish. It's as close as you are ever going to get to a Dune RPG, unless you're one of the lucky ones who has one of the very rare copies of the actual Dune RPG only ever released one year, at gencon (hugs his tightly!).
To chime in, I love Dune.
Regarding the Lynch-Vs-SciFi debate...
The Lynch movie had style. The Lynch movie had (mostly) great actors. The Lynch movie presented a visual image of the world that the sci-fi miniseries can't touch. The Lynch movie is stunning.
Unfortunatly, the Lynch movie also mangles the plot. It doesn't just take liberties. It just changes needlessly. The Sci Fi movie is MUCH truer to the source, including a number of scenes that really needed to be in the Lynch movie, but weren't. The followup miniseries, Children of Dune, isn't as good as the first Sci-Fi series, but it also is worth watching.
To chime in, I love Dune.
Regarding the Lynch-Vs-SciFi debate...
The Lynch movie had style. The Lynch movie had (mostly) great actors. The Lynch movie presented a visual image of the world that the sci-fi miniseries can't touch. The Lynch movie is stunning.
Unfortunatly, the Lynch movie also mangles the plot. It doesn't just take liberties. It just changes needlessly. The Sci Fi movie is MUCH truer to the source, including a number of scenes that really needed to be in the Lynch movie, but weren't. The followup miniseries, Children of Dune, isn't as good as the first Sci-Fi series, but it also is worth watching.
I've read the first two Dune books and I've read maybe a quarter of Children of Dune. Good stuff all the way around... particularly the first book in which I think there's greater narrative strength.
As for the Lynch movie and the mini-series, although I have a great deal of nostalgia for the movie, it's really a bad film. The acting's corny, and the cinematagraphy is far too... coarse given what one reads in the books. And the thinking "dialogue!" Ugh! Also, there are depiction/thematic departures in the film that do not capture the spirit of the book (I don't mind changes that do not impact the spirit of the text); the depiction of The Baron -- hell, all of the Harkonnens -- is a good example of this. Still, the movie does stand alone well... The end is truly epic in feel.
The mini-series captures the feel of the book with far greater accuracy. Of course, due to length, the mini-series is also more faithful to the plot. And the Baron is far more sinister and dangerous in this rendition.
I've yet to see Children of Dune.
As for the Lynch movie and the mini-series, although I have a great deal of nostalgia for the movie, it's really a bad film. The acting's corny, and the cinematagraphy is far too... coarse given what one reads in the books. And the thinking "dialogue!" Ugh! Also, there are depiction/thematic departures in the film that do not capture the spirit of the book (I don't mind changes that do not impact the spirit of the text); the depiction of The Baron -- hell, all of the Harkonnens -- is a good example of this. Still, the movie does stand alone well... The end is truly epic in feel.
The mini-series captures the feel of the book with far greater accuracy. Of course, due to length, the mini-series is also more faithful to the plot. And the Baron is far more sinister and dangerous in this rendition.
I've yet to see Children of Dune.
Assenpfeffer
First Post
I've read the first book several times. It's one of the masterpieces of written SF, and one of about half o dozen books that are really essential. I also managed to fight my way through books 2 and 3 (which, despite Herbert's later protestations to the contrary, were never planned until the first book became hugely successful.)
The Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson productions are hackwork, of about the same quality as other licensed fiction, which is to say that they're utter crap. They also undermine a good deal of the continuity that's established in Dune.
The David Lynch movie is very interesting. It has a great cast, great costumes and production design, and good special effects for the time. It adheres slavishly to the book in places, going so far as to include the character's internal dialogue. But equally important scenes in the novel are changed radically or dropped entirely, and a major incongrous plot element (the weirding modules) are added for no sensible reason. The story ends up being a complete mess, but the film is watchable beacuse of its high production quality.
The first SciFi miniseries is also interesting. The screenplay deviates from the book in any number of places, sometimes senselessly, but it's obvious that the writers understood the story much better than those of the Lynch film, and the story remains mostly intact. It's a good (but not stellar) adaptation, but, to be fair, Dune is a book that's almost uniquely difficult to put on screen, so the writers should get a lot of credit.
But the production quality was horrendous. The cast and acting (with two exceptions) are incredibly bad. If your high school drama club ever does Dune, it will be about as well-acted as this. The costumes are also laugh-out-loud funny, and the production design nonexistent. The only decent-looking sets are the palace at Arakeen (and I think that's because they used an actual palace somewhere instead of building a set.)
If you've watched the BBC's productions (say, I, Claudius,) you'll realize that elaborate sets and costumes (or special effects) aren't neccessary to a great production, if the acting and script are good enough. That's not the case with SciFi's Dune - the screenplay is good, but not good enough to compensate for the dreadful production, or good enough to keep them from being an overwhelming distraction while watching it, and the acting, except for Alec Newman and Ian McNeice, is terrible.
As you can tell, I wasn't super pumped about SciFi's follow-up miniseries, Children of Dune. The funny part is that just about everything that Frank Herbert's Dune did wrong, Children of Dune fixed. The sceenplay was tightened up, the bad actors were recast, the costumes redesigned, the sets imrpoved. Children of Dune is far better than its predecessor - the worst thing about it is the fact that the first one wasn't done this well. It's actually better than the two books it's based on.
The Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson productions are hackwork, of about the same quality as other licensed fiction, which is to say that they're utter crap. They also undermine a good deal of the continuity that's established in Dune.
The David Lynch movie is very interesting. It has a great cast, great costumes and production design, and good special effects for the time. It adheres slavishly to the book in places, going so far as to include the character's internal dialogue. But equally important scenes in the novel are changed radically or dropped entirely, and a major incongrous plot element (the weirding modules) are added for no sensible reason. The story ends up being a complete mess, but the film is watchable beacuse of its high production quality.
The first SciFi miniseries is also interesting. The screenplay deviates from the book in any number of places, sometimes senselessly, but it's obvious that the writers understood the story much better than those of the Lynch film, and the story remains mostly intact. It's a good (but not stellar) adaptation, but, to be fair, Dune is a book that's almost uniquely difficult to put on screen, so the writers should get a lot of credit.
But the production quality was horrendous. The cast and acting (with two exceptions) are incredibly bad. If your high school drama club ever does Dune, it will be about as well-acted as this. The costumes are also laugh-out-loud funny, and the production design nonexistent. The only decent-looking sets are the palace at Arakeen (and I think that's because they used an actual palace somewhere instead of building a set.)
If you've watched the BBC's productions (say, I, Claudius,) you'll realize that elaborate sets and costumes (or special effects) aren't neccessary to a great production, if the acting and script are good enough. That's not the case with SciFi's Dune - the screenplay is good, but not good enough to compensate for the dreadful production, or good enough to keep them from being an overwhelming distraction while watching it, and the acting, except for Alec Newman and Ian McNeice, is terrible.
As you can tell, I wasn't super pumped about SciFi's follow-up miniseries, Children of Dune. The funny part is that just about everything that Frank Herbert's Dune did wrong, Children of Dune fixed. The sceenplay was tightened up, the bad actors were recast, the costumes redesigned, the sets imrpoved. Children of Dune is far better than its predecessor - the worst thing about it is the fact that the first one wasn't done this well. It's actually better than the two books it's based on.
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Galeros said:
Dune is a fantastic book and I highly advise that you read it. As the other posts mention, it is essentially a book about religious fanaticism, a messiah, political intrigue and war.
On another note, many have linked parts of the story as Herbert's own critique on both Ecology and Western Foreign Policies in the Middle East and I tend to agree.
Check the book out, you will not be dissapointed.
Cheers,
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
I liked the Sci-Fi miniseries more than the movie, which I like quite a bit and have on DVD, as it was much more to the books than the Lynch flick. As for the books themselves, Dune, Dune Messiah, Children of Dune, & God Emperor of Dune were all quite enjoyable. Heritics of Dune & Chapterhouse Dune were quite a chore to finish. It actually took me over a year to finish Heretics due to stopping and saying no more, then restarting the book.
Dune is a lot of different books, compressed into one volume.
On one level, it's about the son of a Duke seeking vengeance against those who betrayed and destroyed his father and rising to true power.
On another level, it's speculation about the evolution of religion and politics.
On another level, it's an exploration of the nature of prophesy, physics, and human potential.
On yet another level, the structure of the narrative itself mirrors the incomprehensible experiences of the main character, subtly causing the reader to understand what temporal clairvoyance would actually be like.
It's called a masterpiece with good reason.
On one level, it's about the son of a Duke seeking vengeance against those who betrayed and destroyed his father and rising to true power.
On another level, it's speculation about the evolution of religion and politics.
On another level, it's an exploration of the nature of prophesy, physics, and human potential.
On yet another level, the structure of the narrative itself mirrors the incomprehensible experiences of the main character, subtly causing the reader to understand what temporal clairvoyance would actually be like.
It's called a masterpiece with good reason.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
I remember trying several times to read Dune when I was about eight or nine, and I simply couldn't get past the first chapter. It didn't grip me at all.
When I was ten, I saw the Lynch film... and read all six books in quick succession. I found that having a vague idea of what the thing was about made a huge difference.
And then a couple of years later I came back to reread Dune... and couldn't get past the first chapter.
Eventually I think I watched the movie again, and then started rereading... I got about halfway through God Emperor, and lost my momentum - didn't have a chance to read much for a week or so. And then I picked the book back up, started reading where I left off, and as left thinking "Huh? What's going on? Who are these people? This makes no sense!"
For some reason, I find Herbert takes more effort for me to read than just about any other book I can recall... and I don't enjoy his writing anywhere near enough to put myself through that effort.
But I do enjoy the Dune 2 (or Dune 2000) RTS
Which, I think, makes me a perfect candidate for enjoying the Lynch film. I'm vaguely familiar with the setting and story, but not familiar enough that I notice deviations from the book. And so I get the full impact of that fabulous cast and general stylishness of the film... without being distracted by where it differs from the canon.
"Usul - we have wormsign the likes of which God has never seen!"
-Hyp.
When I was ten, I saw the Lynch film... and read all six books in quick succession. I found that having a vague idea of what the thing was about made a huge difference.
And then a couple of years later I came back to reread Dune... and couldn't get past the first chapter.
Eventually I think I watched the movie again, and then started rereading... I got about halfway through God Emperor, and lost my momentum - didn't have a chance to read much for a week or so. And then I picked the book back up, started reading where I left off, and as left thinking "Huh? What's going on? Who are these people? This makes no sense!"
For some reason, I find Herbert takes more effort for me to read than just about any other book I can recall... and I don't enjoy his writing anywhere near enough to put myself through that effort.
But I do enjoy the Dune 2 (or Dune 2000) RTS
Which, I think, makes me a perfect candidate for enjoying the Lynch film. I'm vaguely familiar with the setting and story, but not familiar enough that I notice deviations from the book. And so I get the full impact of that fabulous cast and general stylishness of the film... without being distracted by where it differs from the canon.
"Usul - we have wormsign the likes of which God has never seen!"
-Hyp.
My main problem with the Lynch version is when I went to the theater and bought a ticket, they gave me a double sided sheet of terms to read and know BEFORE the movie started. This means there was alot of stuff cut out. I had also hear of Sci Fi channel running the expanded Lynch movie on occausion, I heard this was alot better then the TC.
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