WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

[Xenonnonex]

No. I do not believe in those either. I only believe in individuals who see themselves as part of those (non-existent) communities.

Quite something. That is. Also a contradiction. How would individuals see themselves as part of those communities. If those communities do not exist.
Not talking sense that is.

 

[Kaodi]

I am not quite sure how we got to a Thatcherian "There is no such thing as society," thing going on here. In my own post I said that they were abstractions - that is not exactly the same thing as saying the idea of a community is incoherent. Mainly you just need to be wary of allowing the idea of "community" to do work it is not equipped for in moral arguments.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Quite something. That is. Also a contradiction. How would individuals see themselves as part of those communities. If those communities do not exist.
Not talking sense that is.

Because we act as though the community exists. The same way I go on a hunt for a unicorn, acting as if one did exist.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Because we act as though we exist. The same way I go on a hunt for a unicorn, acting as if one did exist.

Completely different. To argue both in the same breadth is ludicrous.
You do realize tribalism is a problem. Yes.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Completely different. To argue both in the same breadth is ludicrous.
You do realize tribalism is a problem. Yes.

I believe tribalism is a tremendous problem.

I hypothesize communities might an emergent property of human emotional attachments/interaction/something else (I haven't figured this out yet). It is something that can be described, but not something real.

 

[Azzy]

That's because I'm not presenting substance. I'm asking substance to be presented.

I don't believe you.

I'm auguring that racism is poor reasoning that must be corrected.

I agree that it needs to be corrected.

Many (which I perceive you to be among, but I may be wrong) are arguing for the removal as a track to reduce racism. I don't see how removing art reduces racism without correcting poor reasoning in the first place, but if that poor reasoning was corrected, there would be no reason to remove said art.

Personally, I don't thin it should be entirely removed. I'd rather that an essay on all the things that's wrong about and how such things have been weaponized against other people b put on the website and in the front of the pdf, and all profit be given to a charity that promotes understanding the historical issues that Asian Americans have faced in this country. However, if it were taken down, I still wouldn't care. Removing it from sale does not remove it from existence—all the physical books still exist, everyone who bought the pdf will still have their pdf, and I'm sure pirate sites will still have it available. The difference is that, now, WotC won't be profitting from the racism that is inherent in the book.

And like it or not, racist art is still hurtful regardless of the intention of the artist or whether everyone knows that racism is completely stupid and wrong. Removing it from public view doesn't make it go away, but it does stop it from being a constant reminder of racism. I mean, I think that any reasonable person would have a problem if a movie theater decided to start playing Birth of a Nation.

 

[Xenonnonex]

I believe tribalism is a tremendous problem.

I hypothesize communities might an emergent property of human emotional attachments/interaction/something else (I haven't figured this out yet). It is something that can be described, but not something real.

Around for a long time. Have been those communities. Before our time. For a long time.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't believe you.



I agree that it needs to be corrected.



Personally, I don't thin it should be entirely removed. I'd rather that an essay on all the things that's wrong about and how such things have been weaponized against other people b put on the website and in the front of the pdf, and all profit be given to a charity that promotes understanding the historical issues that Asian Americans have faced in this country. However, if it were taken down, I still wouldn't care. Removing it from sale does not remove it from existence—all the physical books still exist, everyone who bought the pdf will still have their pdf, and I'm sure pirate sites will still have it available. The difference is that, now, WotC won't be profitting from the racism that is inherent in the book.

And like it or not, racist art is still hurtful regardless of the intention of the artist or whether everyone knows that racism is completely stupid and wrong. Removing it from public view doesn't make it go away, but it does stop it from being a constant reminder of racism. I mean, I think that any reasonable person would have a problem if a movie theater decided to start playing Birth of a Nation.

Depends on how they release it. Commercial release no but what do you do with it? Tuck it away in some university library where only elites can view it?

My university had more than a few things that utterly fail purity tests but they're used in history papers or politics.

Who's allowed to watch it and how?

I think the old D&D stuff should be available. Put a disclaimer on it perhaps.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Around for a long time. Have been those communities. Before our time. For a long time.

World religions have also been around for a long time, yet they no more than one of them can be factual. The amount of time people have believed something does not equate it with fact.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

And like it or not, racist art is still hurtful regardless of the intention of the artist or whether everyone knows that racism is completely stupid and wrong. Removing it from public view doesn't make it go away, but it does stop it from being a constant reminder of racism. I mean, I think that any reasonable person would have a problem if a movie theater decided to start playing Birth of a Nation.

If you know racism is stupid and wrong, why does it hurt?