Dungeons & Dragons Lite: Am I the Only One?

[Henry]

...You see, after taking some time off, here's what I've decided to do. I'm going to start a 3.0 campaign (I never got into 3.5) using *only* the following books:

1. Player's Handbook
2. Dungeon Master's Guide
3. Monster Manual 1 and 2
4. Arms and Equipment Guide
5. Living Greyhawk Gazetteer

And that's it. D&D Lite. No spells, feats, equipment, prestige classes, base classes, or races are allowed UNLESS THEY ARE FOUND IN THE ABOVE BOOKS.

I've run 'em before using only the PHB, the DMG, and the MM! You bloated rules-lawyer, you!

Seriously, there's nothing that says there's too much. except us, and not all of us are saying it. Past the first three, there are no other books needed if you don't want, because none of them tie into one another, none are essential to the body of rules, and can be discarded at will. Heck, you don't even need to use the whole set there! If you want to run a game where you drop Sorcerers, Paladins, and all Prestige Classes, and disallow all spells that are alignment-based (kind of a Dark Sun-lite), then it's good to go.

Then you have the players who want it all - they want every rulebook possible and then some. There's plenty of them (I'm probably one of them) and the flow of books is actually TOO slow. Too few books deprives them of their fun, while we can have all the fun we want just by doing what you're doing -- setting the hard limits, and charging forward. Nothing wrong with either one, but I'm not worried that there are too many rulebooks, because the number they release every month is actually pretty low - maybe three or four?

 

[Nebulous]

I've only run core games for 3.0 & 3.5. Even if I use a setting, I just use that setting book. I don't even use prestige classes. It's still too much by about 7th level. If I ever get around to running D&D again, I'm thinking about making the replacement characters start over at 1st level just to try to keep it at lower levels.

I deliberately force characters in 3.x to level slower. The game gets hopelessly muddled at higher level, and for me, has the most semblance of fun from levels 1-12. That's a nice, long time to enjoy a character, after which i just assume to start over again.

 

[Razz]

My campaign is almost ALL of the WotC published books releases including Dragon Magazine subscriptions.

Why?

I am sorry, but I will not DM nor play in someone's campaign unless every option is presented, unless the variety of the game will keep everyone satisfied, unless something new comes out that could be useful for my game/character/monsters/NPC whatever!

IMHO, those of you with just the 3 core books and a couple of others have boring campaigns in my eyes. The feats, spells, monsters, prestige classes all become horrible repetitive and eventually boring.

SCENARIO:
PLAYER 1: "Well what do you know! There's another...beholder! That's our 50th one! Alright...yay...this time with sorceror class levels...whoop dee doo *snore*"
PLAYER 2: "You know, I saw some cool monsters I'd like to battle, like that Fiendwurm in Monster Manual 2, but our lazy, cheap DM won't buy it nor would he use it in his game even if we bought it."
PLAYER 3: "You and me both. You know how long I've wanted my Sorceror to have a couple of neat spells for my character from Complete Arcane, and the Elemental Savant prestige class? I want him to be good at fire magic, but there's nothing in the PHB or the DMG that'll help me along that type of play style. I'm gonna get Complete Arcane and if DM won't let me use it, time for a new DM."
PLAYER 4: "I'm going to...well...my turn undead is useless. Again. I wish there were other uses for turn undead. I sure could use the Dvine feats in Complete Divine."

This is what you get when you don't implement more variety in your games. Now if you have simple-minded players, all the cheaper and better for DMs out there. But if you have players like mine that always want to see something new, exciting, and feel rewarded when the DM opens up BoED when they helped the celestial paragons unfoil a diabolical plot and they now have access to celestial magic and exalted feats well then HELL! Use new material for your player's sake!

 

[JoeGKushner]

IMHO, those of you with just the 3 core books and a couple of others have boring campaigns in my eyes. The feats, spells, monsters, prestige classes all become horrible repetitive and eventually boring.

Well, as I'm one of those people who enjoys having more, I just wanted to point out that in my years of playing 3.0/3.5, I still have yet to see someone take a Red Wizard PrC as a player, or an Arcane Archer. Still a lot of ground to explore in that old DMG.

And the monster manual, if using standard xp, is a book large enough to accomidate several campaigns, especially if using tempaltes, advancing creatures by hit dice/size, and giving them class levels.

One campagin I ran based partially on the old Fiery Dragon books and their Himrak orcs, went for months with the party fighting orc-themed beasts like those from AEG's Monsters, Heroes of High-Favor Half Orcs, and a few other resources, before I moved on to... well, not 'greener' pastures, but different creatures.

As other posters may have mentioned, there is no badwrongfun.

 

[Razz]

I use all the books i own. Part of the fun is collecting all the books and if i get even one cool idea for a game its all worth it.
I dont really see why so many people have such a hard time using all the rules. Maybe its just personal likes rather than complications over the ruleset.
My total gaming collection must consist of about 500 books, about 126 of that are actively used, the rest where old books bought for possible resale.

My thoughts exactly. Though I currently keep my shelves/floor/storage closet all light by only purchasing FR books and WotC books and Dragon Magazines, I find use for all of them.

Need a vile villain once in awhile? I open BoVD. Have an aasimar player interested in becoming an exalted paladin? I'm glad I bought BoED! Have a player looking for a tree of feats for his fighter involving swashbuckling combat? Complete Warrior and that Dragon Magazine issue on Swashbucklers is perfect. Have a player with a halfling wizard that wants to worship Azuth but still be on equal par with Arcane and Divine magic while mastering the techniques of counterspelling? Glad I have the Archmage and Mystic Theurge PrC in the DMG, along with Improved Counterspell from the PHB, Reactive Counterspell from MoF, Epic Counterspell from PGtF for when he attains epic level. Your players want to be like those characters in the movies or like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon when he deflected all those needles? Epic Level Handbook, and an OA book for those interested in the actual setting!

See, so many wonderful uses.

 

[The Shaman]

No imagination these days with some people.

Un-mother-ing believable.

Time for me to take another vacation from the General RPG board. See y'all in the funny papers.

 

[Razz]

Well, as I'm one of those people who enjoys having more, I just wanted to point out that in my years of playing 3.0/3.5, I still have yet to see someone take a Red Wizard PrC as a player, or an Arcane Archer. Still a lot of ground to explore in that old DMG.

But at least the option is always there.

And there're always players looking for something new. Plus old players might leave the gaming group while new ones enter, and presenting them with the options is worthwhile. You'd be amazed at how many players wanted something for their character but never knew existed because it was in a book the DM or another fellow player didn't purchase.

Though it is true the average gaming group don't really go through the hundreds of prestige classes out there quite easily. That's what NPCs/monsters are for. Tweak the arcane archer prerequisites for your campaign and you can have a medusa arcane archer to wow your players and make the battle memorable for them. It might even spark a new arcane archer within the group. Or present an elven clan that's specialized in such ways of the bow in the campaign. The new material is just as good for DMs as it is for players, old and new.

 

[Razz]

Un-mother-ing believable.

Time for me to take another vacation from the General RPG board. See y'all in the funny papers.

Oh please, people have stated ten times more offensive opinions on here. That was very light, if barely at all, offensive to anyone since it didn't specifically point anyone out.

But I've edited for the sake of those such as yourself that react way too strongly to what people have to say. :\

 

[JoeGKushner]

But at least the option is always there.

And there're always players looking for something new. Plus old players might leave the gaming group while new ones enter, and presenting them with the options is worthwhile. You'd be amazed at how many players wanted something for their character but never knew existed because it was in a book the DM or another fellow player didn't purchase.

Though it is true the average gaming group don't really go through the hundreds of prestige classes out there quite easily. That's what NPCs/monsters are for. Tweak the arcane archer prerequisites for your campaign and you can have a medusa arcane archer to wow your players and make the battle memorable for them. It might even spark a new arcane archer within the group. Or present an elven clan that's specialized in such ways of the bow in the campaign. The new material is just as good for DMs as it is for players, old and new.

I agree with you. I'm just noting that it's perfectly acceptable to play with just the core books and in one campaign, you'd never have to use some of the name monsters twice.

For example, there are many types of dragons in the Monster Manual. that number becomes even more vast when tempaltes are applied to them or when they're advanced as a class.

If you move beyond the core though, and use something like the Dragonomicon or the Classic Play book of Dragons, well, now you're options have gone up by a huge factor.

Just because something is available to purchase doesn't make it automatically better or viable for all campaigns. It just makes it an option.

 

[Breakdaddy]

Oh please, people have stated ten times more offensive opinions on here. That was very light, if barely at all, offensive to anyone since it didn't specifically point anyone out.

But I've edited for the sake of those such as yourself that react way too strongly to what people have to say. :\

He is probably put off by your implication that his game is somehow inferior to your game (ie-boring) because he doesn't use all the k3wl l3wt from the non core books. To some people, your game could be seen as incredibly boring, because it relies on clutch new resources to provide the fun instead of using your imagination. You imply this yourself by stating flatly that you would refuse to play in a core only game. Seems silly to me, you should try it sometime.