Dungeons essay on evil

[DMH]

I recently picked up Dungeons (AEG) and found the essay on the 3 evil alignment facinating. The only problem I have is applying the description for CE to community based humanoids like orcs. The article uses a movie biker gang as an example of how CE creatures act- but if they are constant raiders, how do orcs survive? After a couple months of losing people I would think the local king would have his army eradicate them. If hobgoblins have armies that are like well oiled machines and orcs are hordes, how do the orcs survive combat with them?

What about ogres and other CE community dwelling creatures that have a lower reproductive rate than orcs?

 

[Thalantor]

Simple, by having a portion of the orc horde be non-CE, I think. Just keep a couple of motherly lawfuls around to keep them in check and the brutal orc-kids can go out and play and maim and pillage.

 

[fredramsey]

Actually during the American Revolutionary War, the British (a well-oiled machine) found out what it was like to battle hoards (the colonists). Just an example.

I recently picked up Dungeons (AEG) and found the essay on the 3 evil alignment facinating. The only problem I have is applying the description for CE to community based humanoids like orcs. The article uses a movie biker gang as an example of how CE creatures act- but if they are constant raiders, how do orcs survive? After a couple months of losing people I would think the local king would have his army eradicate them. If hobgoblins have armies that are like well oiled machines and orcs are hordes, how do the orcs survive combat with them?

What about ogres and other CE community dwelling creatures that have a lower reproductive rate than orcs?

 

[The_Gunslinger658]

Actually during the American Revolutionary War, the British (a well-oiled machine) found out what it was like to battle hoards (the colonists). Just an example.

Uh actually American troops fought along the same lines as the British, line up, march forward, fire a volley of musket ball's, reload and do it again, the only difference was that the American side used snipers to off the British officers and turn would make the well oiled British fighting machine into a rabble of wondering lost soul's.

Just as disclaimer, My expertise in military history is more along the lines of modern Warfare. Just pulling the above from the old cobwebs in my head.

Scott

 

[fredramsey]

Then you might want to check again. We made heavy use of guerrila warfare and hid behind the trees.

Of course, I'm getting this from cobwebs too, but I'm pretty certain of it.

Uh actually American troops fought along the same lines as the British, line up, march forward, fire a volley of musket ball's, reload and do it again, the only difference was that the American side used snipers to off the British officers and turn would make the well oiled British fighting machine into a rabble of wondering lost soul's.

Just as disclaimer, My expertise in military history is more along the lines of modern Warfare. Just pulling the above from the old cobwebs in my head.

Scott

 

[Thalantor]

Still, the heart of the matter is wether Chaotic Evilness stands in the way of Self or Racial Preservation.

 

[fredramsey]

I've always considered alignment in that respect to be about degrees.

Is the Chaotic Evil of an Orc the same as the Chaotic Evil of a Demon?

If you want to make alignment black and white, there would be no such thing as a group of CE creatures. They'd kill each other until there was only one left.

Still, the heart of the matter is wether Chaotic Evilness stands in the way of Self or Racial Preservation.

 

[Trickstergod]

Idle "stuff."

First off, the king won't necessarily be able to eradicate the orc hordes. The idea of a national army that readily obeys the king isn't one that will necessarily hold up. Chances are, the kings army is only as powerful as his barons or what have you, at least in a feudal system.

Which is likely the case with hobgoblins, who aren't likely to be too involved in trade (nor to have extensive enough use of magic to get around some of the troubles that plagued our own middle ages - such as an ability to swiftly communicate with various lords and the like). Thus, the king will have to politic amongst all his vassals in order to get them to raise up an army, which can be a risky endeavor and won't necessarily be successful.

Furthermore, there are plenty of cases of orc/barbarian hordes sweeping in and decimating civilized societies. The fall of Rome. The sweeping in of the Norse through Europe.

The idea of a well-oiled machine for societies like hobgoblins or kings or what have you doesn't really hold up. Chances are, the various lords have quite a good deal of difficulty in taking care of the various agreements, contracts and so forth with their underlings, while also being careful to avoid some rival in their own kingdom from using this as an opportunity to accumulate more power.

Sure, once the king or hobgoblin or whatever has their armies assembled, they may be the best on the battlefield due to greater understanding of tactics, but organizing that army in the first place is no easy thing. By the time it happens, all the army may be able to do is beat the orcs or what have you back but lack the ability to pursue them due to the damage already inflicted during the organizational period.

 

[Kashell]

Furthermore, there are plenty of cases of orc/barbarian hordes sweeping in and decimating civilized societies. The fall of Rome. The sweeping in of the Norse through Europe.

On that note, remember all of these ideas usually come from actually happenings. The Mongols, Huns, Goths, Visigoths are all great examples of things you could do with orcs/hobgolins.

 

[Belen]

Then you might want to check again. We made heavy use of guerrila warfare and hid behind the trees.

Of course, I'm getting this from cobwebs too, but I'm pretty certain of it.

That was really only at the beginning. We were getting our butts kicked by standing up to the British until Washington got the army trained correctly at Valley Forge.

Raiding actions were very minor parts of the war.